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Salam everybody!

Brothers and sisters since I arrived to America I quite don't understand views of American muslims.

As we may know, there are demographic changes in Western countries especially in Europe. If muslims ever become a majority by popular votes in any secular country, should we offer our message to nonbelievers by removing democratic and secular principles, and replacing them by a Quran-based legal system?

Ultimately, don't we want to live in a world submitted to Allah instead of human reason and decadence? Don't we want for everybody, including Allah's enemies, to be in the true path, and ultimately rewarded as much as any member of our blessed community?

asked 152 mohammed129's gravatar image
edited May 03 '13 at 19:23

{Verily, Allah will not change the condition of a people unless there is a change of what is in themselves}.[8]

So what is are level of knowledge and faith compared to the companions or their followers. Where is the umma a at this state. Rather we should focus on ourself then we will have the capability of doing what you have mentioned.

Allah is not intent on punishment. He created man virtuous and pure; he gave him intelligence and knowledge; he surrounded him with all sorts of instruments of His grace and mercy. If, in spite of all this, man distorts his own will and goes against Allah’s Will, yet is Allah’s forgiveness open to him if he will take it. It is only when he has made his own sight blind and changed his own nature or soul away from the beautiful mould in which Allah formed it, that Allah’s Wrath will descend on him and the favourable position in which Allah placed him will be changed. When once the punishment comes, there is no turning it back. None of the things which he relied upon- other than Allah-can possibly protect him.

We want to change the disbelievers yet the sign of qiyamah are almost fulfilled 

When it will be regarded as a shame to act on Quranic injunctions. When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy. When it will be hot in winter (and vice versa). When the length of days is stretched, i.e. a journey of a few days is covered in a matter of hours. When orators and lecturers lie openly. When people dispute over petty issues. When women with children come displeased on account of them bearing offspring, and barren women remain happy on account of having no responsibility of offspring. When oppression, jealousy, and greed become the order of the day. When people blatantly follow their passions and whims. When lies prevail over the truth. When violence, bloodshed and anarchy become common. When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly. When legislation matters pertaining to Deen is handed over to the worst elements of the Ummat, and if people accept them and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannat When the offspring become a cause of grief and anger (for their parents).

Music and musical instruments will be found in every home. People will indulge in homosexuality. There will be an abundance of illegitimate children. There will be an abundance of critics, tale-carriers, back- biters and taunters in society. People will establish ties with strangers and sever relations with their near and dear ones. Hypocrites will be in control of the affairs of the community and evil, immoral people will be at the helm of business establishments. The Masjid will be decorated, but the hearts of the people will be devoid of guidance. The courtyards of Masjids will be built beautifully and high mimbars (pulpits) will be erected. Gangsters and evil people will prevail. Various wines will be consumed excessively.

Imam al-Qurtubi (d. 671/1272) writes: “Allah’s statement: {Verily, Allah will not change the condition of a people unless there is a change of what is in themselves}: Here Allah Most High informs us in this verse that He will not change a qawm until change occurs in them whether from themselves or those in charge of them or those put over them for a reason.

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said "The Last Day will not come until Islam has entered every single house on the earth."

So it will come inshallah, but what is our condition when all of these signs of corruption are prevalent among the Muslims.

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answered 73210 Light's gravatar image
edited May 05 '13 at 04:53

That would not be possible in the US, as there is separation of church and state. There is frreedom of religion, so laws based on one particular faith is unconstitutional. Some states have actually passed laws banning sharia law.

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answered 103 puppas's gravatar image

anything is possible dude. unfortunately we are already seeing an erosion of american law in american courts. and the muslims have been successful in a few states blocking laws outlawing sharia. we must remain vigulant. and businesses are continuing to be forced to change thier policies to bow down to muslims demands. see ambercrombie and finch ruling.

(Sep 24 '13 at 14:34) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Hey you say that everything is possible, but if so then Allah could probably have a Father.. Or could he not?

(Sep 28 '13 at 17:45) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

sup crazy ned? sure, why not. there could be a thousand gods. or there could be no god. but i was refering to puppas comment that the constitution is safe. i've heard muslim "americans" call for a change to our freedom of speech. some want to outlaw saying anything which might offend a religiuos persons feeling. also we have seen some terrible rulings coming out of american courts. famous case in jersey were a muslim woman wanted a restraining order against her husbanmd because she claimed he raped her. he argueed that in islam there is no such thing as maritial rape. judge refussed her reques

(Sep 28 '13 at 18:00) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

How sweet of you to "should we offer our message to nonbelievers by removing democratic and secular principles, and replacing them by a Quran-based legal system?" Religion has no place in the legal system, any religion. Laws should be based upon logic and not something that comes from the desert 1600 years ago. If you want Sharia law go to a country that uses it already.

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answered 19 logical's gravatar image

The whole world belongs to one creator. The one creator of everything... What you say makes 0 sence.

(Sep 26 '13 at 11:36) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

Sadie: My point is this, All religion is subjective and a matter of opinion and to be clear I am not just saying Islam but any religion. Democracy is about the right to choose and when you force people to believe something they are not given free will. You said "The whole world belongs to one creator. The one creator of everything" . To me that makes no sense that you think that a book written 1600 years ago has the answer for everything.

Mankind and Science have come along way since then and we have learned so much that although I was raised in a faithful house hold I come to my own conclusions and live in a country that allows me too. That no-one knows has the true answer and I don't either. I also will be the first to admit that I could be wrong, most religious people cannot say the same thing. I don't push my thoughts on others as I believe they are personal and I am comfortable with it. My point is this: Democracy is awesome and gives me the freedom to make my own choices and abide by common laws of all the people, not just one religion. Sharia Law would take away my rights and freedom and force me to abide by your law. Choice of religion should be a freedom not a requirement by the govt.

Peace

(Sep 26 '13 at 11:59) logical logical's gravatar image

Science has come along way huh? Government makes our choices all the time yes or no? People have the right to choose.. Ya okay if that were true this world we would be much more terrible place and that is hard to imagine. Look no matter what you believe or how you justify your choices. There is going to be 2 sides. 2 roads to go down . I for one don't choose this life. and I for one want what is best for people whether they see it or not.what is freedom ? And where does it come from?

(Sep 26 '13 at 12:23) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

Salam Sister,

Have just left a message for you.

Your brother,

Paul

(Sep 26 '13 at 12:24) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_of_the_governed

"Consent of the governed is a phrase from the United States Declaration of Independence. It is synonymous with a political theory wherein a government's legitimacy and moral right to use state power is only justified and legal when derived from the people or society over which that political power is exercised."

sadie, haven't you seen toy story 3? even barbie understands this.

(Sep 26 '13 at 13:14) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

paul, how it that trial in london going? the one with the niqab wearing chick.

(Sep 26 '13 at 14:54) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Yes I understand what it says . Doesn't mean it always applies. Really mike. What about taxes ? Why are we taxed for wages when it SAYS ONLY PROFITS AND GAINS. ? Don't answer me honestly don't want to talk just needed to make my point. Government does what they want when they want . They make the rules and rule the roost. Here is another phrase for ya , you can find it on your currency""" in god we trust"""

(Sep 26 '13 at 18:19) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

well, are not your wages profits and gains to you? but yes originally income was not taxed. was it the civil war or ww1 that it was introduced? and they were supposed to be temporary. as for in god we trust, that is not original either and should be removed. not sure when it showed up, you can google it, but the phrse "under god" was added to the pledge in the 50's. to "fight the godless communist". should be removed also.

i agree whole heartedly, income tax should be abolished. but it's funny that you criticize the most islamic thing in emerikkkan government. the zakah we pay.

(Sep 27 '13 at 11:33) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

There is a huge difference is sharing wealth where it needs to go verses , the poor become poorer and rich become more rich. Wealthy people sit with lumps of money while other people starve to death . All over the world. As human beings its our responsibility and its ever more inhumane not to do so.

(Sep 27 '13 at 19:51) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

And no it is not a profit nor a gain. Working for wages is a trade. I work for money. TRADE. a profit or gain is for big companies ECT. Which actually make profit and gains.

(Sep 27 '13 at 22:06) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

so a small company can't make profits or gains? if mcdonald's sells you a mcrib do you not trade them money for it. so you trade your labor for money and trade your money for food. by your definition all things could be considered trade as oppossed to profit. or by my definition all things can be considered profit as opposed to trade. you make me laugh sadie. thanks. so how much is zakah? 2.5%. for a socialist you should tell your fellow muslims tha rich should give more. maybe explain the concept of a progressive tax system to them. personally i'm all for a 2.5% flat tax. get me outta 28%.

(Sep 28 '13 at 14:14) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

my bad it was the war of 1812 that saw the first income tax in america. anyway back to taxes. so if someone makes $250,000 through their labor you wouldn't tax them. great. i'll vote for you for president any day.

(Sep 28 '13 at 14:16) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image
showing 5 of 12 show all

@ Sadie. You sounds pretty open minded. HAHA. I know that religion does not teach you to think for yourself. But yes the Govt does make some choices for us in Taxes and Laws that are voted on in most cases by our representatives that we vote in. but Religion is not one of the things dictated by govt and people should not be subjected to laws of your belief.

When you make the comment " Science has come along way Huh? " What do you mean that? Are you saying that we do not have a better understanding of the Universe and evolution today? Are we same as we were 1400 years ago in our knowledge? Of course not, our perspective is completely different. Well those of us that choose to acknowledge facts and not base our entire life on one person's ideas and actually think for yourself.

You said " I for one want what is best for people whether they see it or not?" What do you mean by this? It's ok to force people to abide by what you think is best because it is your belief and not there's. Sounds like a great place to live.

What is freedom? Freedom is choice!!!!!!! Repression is imposing your will on others and give them no choice. In Sharia Law how would I be treated? I am not religious and don't believe or any organized religion for that matter so why should I have to bound by your religious laws just because you think it is right!!!!! It's not right and Sharia has no place in Govt. In some countries I will probably be killed for saying what I can't help but to honestly believe. True yes or no?

I am not a non religious person by choice and there have been times were people have looked down on me because of it. Most people don't understand that the same way that you believe in Islam my non- religious beliefs come from being honest with myself about what my true thoughts are.

Again I admit that I could be totally wrong in my thoughts. Could you say the same thing!!

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answered 19 logical's gravatar image

logical, you hateful, islamic bigot. don't you understand? this is for your own good. you stone sinners to wash away their sin.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/08/20130828-084745.html

you are but like a 5 year-old child who wants to touch the hot stove. sharia is like the father who slaps your hand.

(Sep 26 '13 at 14:53) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

The fact that scientists from around the world have used the Qur'an to help them prove and test theories.. Huh what'd ya know. Let me get right down to it for you because I do not and will not argue with you to you be your way and to me be mine , now for getting right down to it , its not about what belief it is The Truth and facts that prevail. I think you need to study more because an Islamic state doesn't keep others from practicing their religion. Seems like you watch main stream media to much. People are only killed by due process . Just like the court does. The difference is

(Sep 26 '13 at 18:05) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

One set of law is man made the other Devine. Freedom comes from the almighty and no one else. I can't and won't say the sane thing as my truth comes from textual proofs , in many sources including science and yours are based on your thoughts. Your words not mine. My advice to you is to research legitimate sources and learn about Islam . Because speaking without true knowledge is harmful. May Allah bless you Salam .

(Sep 26 '13 at 18:10) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

What it comes down to that in countries that have freedom of religion, including the freedom to reject religion altogether, it is wrong to have laws based upon one particular faith. A Muslim wouldn't want to live under laws based on the Christian faith, Shinto, Hindu, etc. and should not have to. The same applies for non-Muslims and sharia law. How one lives their life is their own personal business, but their beliefs should not be forced on anyone else.

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answered 103 puppas's gravatar image

Puppas well said.
Sadie you said"The fact that scientists from around the world have used the Qur'an to help them prove and test theories.. Huh what'd ya know" I am sure that the scientists from NASA use the Quran all the time for their projects. I am sure these scientist whom you are referring to are muslim's use vague references to valid their belief in Islam, Christians and jews do the same thing with their books. At the end of the day the Quran/Bible and Torah are books created by mankind and yes your prophet was just a man. FAith and some random vague statement in a book from a man that came out of the desert 1400 years ago are not fact. FAith leads you to believe they are fact because you have been taught that since birth and don't know anything else.

I live in the US and I will be the first to tell you are govt has a great number of flaws and that is putting it lightly. At the end of the days I do have freedom live my life and make my own decisions. If I make bad decisions I am judged by common laws and jury of my piers that could be mix of all types of people and all types of religions. That is what makes America a great place to live is that we are melting pot of the human race and that is democracy.

If Sharia law is so great then why aren't more people trying to get into places like Pakistan where some who speaks blasphemy about Mohammed can be put to death. If I said the prophet Mohammed was not a real prophet, which I don't believe he was, I would be arrested or killed. http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012/08/24/news/national/islamabad-christians-afraid-after-blasphemy-arrest/

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answered 19 logical's gravatar image

Ignorance is bliss" Salam

(Sep 27 '13 at 19:56) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

A unbeliever is one that will not understand, that he will not comprehend because he can not see and hear for he is blind so he can not see and he is deaf for he can not hear...

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answered 0544148 UnknownUser's gravatar image

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answered 0 taiseer's gravatar image
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Asked: May 03 '13 at 19:21

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Last updated: Oct 11 '13 at 06:33



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