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Greetings. I am a man of science and a fighter for equality. Being a lover of history, it didn't take me long to see the wonders Islam brought to a dark time for humanity. Islam strongly believed in not allowing faith to interfere with scientific progress, and that all are equal. From my intense studies recently, I've realized that in many regions such philosophy has been erased and replaced with fundamentalism. Sexism, homophobia, and hatred toward other religions has become a common trait of Muslims. I find this religion beautiful and the culture it came from intriguing. Though a huge skeptic, I think Islam has the potential to become a progressive and accepting religion. So, my question is: As a fighter for gay rights (I myself am not gay), women's rights, and peace between all people no matter what - would you accept me as a fellow Muslim?

asked 4411139 UnknownUser's gravatar image
closed Aug 04 '13 at 05:14 sadie ♦ 1.6k313 sadie's gravatar image

The question has been closed for the following reason "The question is answered, right answer was accepted" by sadie Aug 04 '13 at 05:14

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@Locke to answer your question, can I accept you as fellow muslim? The answer is no and my reason is because your veiws are unislamic, for Allah azza wal jall has said in th qur'an, " And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are kafirun (disbelievers) of a lesser degree as they donot act on Allah's laws." (Sura 5:44) So if you choose to fight for gay rights, so be it, to you be your way and to me be mine. There is no debate about that, I agree that being gay has much to do with genetics but choice is do to the indiviual, for every man genetically has woman in him do to the x chromosome, so if genetics is the key factor to the outcome then every man should be gay, but we're not and that is by choice, and Allah being Adl (just) judges the intentions which sires choice. Also, you have stated that Allah is not perfect which is perfection and I agree with you but not for the resons you gave. I agree from what the qur'an has stated many times and that being, NOTHING IN CREATION IS LIKE ME, HIGH ABOVE IS ALLAH THAN THAT WHICH THEY ATTRIBUTED TO HIM, so now I must ask where does perfection exist? The answer to this is within creation and the fact that Allah has specified that nothing in creation is like the creator then perfection can not be such for Allah is high above that and creation is not the creator, creation is something the creator did, thus seperating Himself from the action. You being a

sciencitist can not refute the fact that by definition there are systems in place within creation that are perfect, one being your make up, and you also know The laws of opposites for Allah in His Hikmah (wisdom) has made opposites in creation to keep the balance, thus making Allah the source of perfection and imperfection within His creation. But Allah is neither for He is high above what is attributed to Him. Last but not least you asked what is wrong with being gay? Everything for Allah has said such are the worst in creation, and that is enough for me, and if it is not for you I understand why, for Allah has stated," whether you warn them or warn them not, they will not believe for Allah has placed a seal on their hearts." May Allah guide and protect the believer's! Slaam

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answered 765830 yaqin's gravatar image

I personally would not. And I will tell you why . A Muslim is someone who submits his/her whole self to Allah. This means following his laws. Forbidding what is forbidden and implement what is lawful. Not following our own ignorant desires. Or man made laws. Do you see the difference? You can't have both. Choose Allah or choose this worldly way. Salam

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answered 1.6k313 sadie's gravatar image

The story of Lot is a story based around faith, not confirmed, and therefore does not count as fact. Sadly, as a skeptic and scientist I must rely on hard evidence to make any sort of decision or theory. So, to solve the problem I had to look at evidence from confirmed historical events and today's studies.

Alas! my dear brother, The Earth isn't like a digital device where every little action can be recorded and stored safely by default and traced back whenever needed... The earth itself, along with the people in it, undergo severe physical changes over time. What were FACTS once, can become nothing more than FOLKLORE and vice-versa.

And, how can we even begin to understand all the discussions under this topic, if it is "clear cut historical and factual evidence" that can prove it you?? After all, the very creation of Man and the universe is still a highly discussed 'theory' among scientists, whereas the Quran clearly states that Allah(swt) has created us. This notion of creation can be accepted, ONLY if a person has faith in Allah and His Quran. Similarly, the story of Lot can also be accepted, ONLY if you have faith in Quran and its teachings. (The least you can check for proof of prophet Lot is that, he is mentioned in other religious scriptures as well, but as a muslim, i believe only the Quran's version is the final and proper story).

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answered 4411139 UnknownUser's gravatar image

@Locke: First of all let me apologize to you and other members for veering off the actual question and turning it to a discussion rather than a question/answer format. If you wish, you are most welcome to continue this conversation at the COMMUNITY site of islam.com.

But I would certainly like to summarize my views in this post for one last time. (Once again apologies for this long post)

@Locke said, and I answer some of his views....

There are writings and archeological evidence that can give us detailed descriptions of events thousands of years, even millions with new carbon dating tech.

But then, there are details of several other historical events (including events that may be just a few hundred years old) that cannot be proven/described neither by current technology nor by historical writings, at all..

Therefore, if the event did take place then we'll find it within the next fifty years, thus confirmed it. Until then I must treat it like metaphorical folk lore.

In which case, I wish you luck in finding those answers within your lifetime. May Allah(swt) guide you in your quest!

Faith for me goes to much of religion and definitely into a belief in a higher power, but much of what religion brings needs to be confirmed or discarded based on evidence.

I am sorry, but, I can only quote you the Quran in this regard..

“Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He, then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs.” Al-Quran (Chapter 39, Verse 41)

Furthermore, I don't know what's wrong with being gay? Please explain.

Being gay at heart may not be THE problem, but acting upon gay desires does result in many physical and psychological problems, including, but not limited to, increased possibility of Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs), physical injuries to internal organs, to mention a few.

Also, think of great people who were gay or bisexual in history; Alexander the Great, Augustus of Rome, and Leonidas of Spartan. These men achieved great things, were moral and brilliant, and they all apparently escaped Allah's wrath.

That maybe the case in our point of view, but no one can confirm that they escaped Allah's wrath except Allah Himself. (Afterlife.. judgement day.. remember??)

Also, there's nothing wrong with being blind and it is not a condition that's solutions come from cultural assimilation. With blind people you don't scream at them to get some better eyes, you bring them into society so that can be equal through change. For example, a blind person can get a seeing eye dog or have someone help them go through life. It's helping them to become everyones equal once more.

Surely, there is nothing wrong with being blind. And we do bring them into society with help from various quarters. I only suggest that, there are similar ways to help and accept gay people as normal. It maybe through marriage with the opposite sex, or leading a single life, or through medical counseling and so on, rather than screaming at them to straighten up their sexual orientation.

And I strongly oppose discriminating against any person just because of their birth characteristics. Gay or not, ALL HUMANS DESERVE TO BE TREATED EQUALLY.

And finally, to answer the question of @Locke:

So, my question is: As a fighter for gay rights (I myself am not gay), women's rights, and peace between all people no matter what - would you accept me as a fellow Muslim?

I agree with @sadie and quote his answer,

I personally would not. And I will tell you why. A Muslim is someone who submits his/her whole self to Allah. This means following his laws. Forbidding what is forbidden and implement what is lawful. Not following our own ignorant desires. Or man made laws. Do you see the difference? You can't have both. Choose Allah or choose this worldly way.

Salam.

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answered 4411139 UnknownUser's gravatar image

Yes, I know what Islam means and its terminology's background (historian, remember). Though the sources I read described submission as more of a notion for power and wisdom; which I believe means little for the sake of progress. Muhammad (peace be upon him) talked of how people in writing or interpreting scripture failed miserably, twice. To me this shows the fallibility, assuming that the prophets were going somewhere with their theology, of humans. Ergo, we must constantly doubt, challenge, and improve our views on everything. Thanks for the answer.

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answered 4411139 UnknownUser's gravatar image

Now wait your twisting god s message. Never did he say be gay. So no matter what you think you standing for gay rights is against god. and women's rights... What exactly do you mean? Peace no matter what kind of person or way of life. YHA good luck with that. This life is only for a short time Salam

(Aug 01 '13 at 02:01) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

well not until, you say the kalimah, (declaration of faith)

the more deep you go in science, the more you ll love Islam,and come to know it

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answered 87218 TeenMuslim's gravatar image
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Anyone can say kalimah. Doesn't make them Muslim.

(Aug 01 '13 at 02:33) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

@TeenMuslim: There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the messenger of Allah.

La, c'est fini.

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answered 4411139 UnknownUser's gravatar image

MASHALLAH!!!!

(Aug 01 '13 at 02:43) TeenMuslim ♦ TeenMuslim's gravatar image

Locke:

I’m intrigued. I’d be most grateful if you would describe, in detail and with appropriate references, what it is you are ‘hugely sceptical’ about, and why.

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answered 4411139 UnknownUser's gravatar image

félicitations!, vous êtes musulman!

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answered 87218 TeenMuslim's gravatar image

@Locke

Puisse Allah vous guider le profond de l'islam

Puisse Allah faire votre chemin vers le succès facile

Qu'Allah vous un vrai musulman rendre

Qu'Allah nous envoyer tous au Paradis Ameen

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answered 87218 TeenMuslim's gravatar image

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Asked: Aug 01 '13 at 01:17

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Last updated: Aug 04 '13 at 05:14


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