isnt playing God, for example...killing other people and saying it was an "honor crime" isnt that punished also?? or even let me give another example, being able to delete others words from the world.... cuz thats what u do when u kill someone right? you take away their voice....right?

anyways....my real question is...isnt killing for "honor" haram. thats my question....yep...:) ok thanks, or no thanks since im sure ill be edited ;) "salam"

asked 162218 a_mohammed's gravatar image

There is no such thing as honour killing. Killing someone is haraam except if you have a valid reason like to defend your self or in war. That is the only time you can kill someone. Also if you are in a shariyah country the judge etc is the only who is allowed to kill the person if their punishment of their crime is death.

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answered 10 DeenMachine125's gravatar image

there is a such thing. i didnt ask if it was real. its real. i asked if it was haram. thanks

(Aug 22 '13 at 11:23) a_mohammed a_mohammed's gravatar image

Praise be to Allaah.

Killing a Muslim unlawfully is a serious matter and a grave crime. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein; and the Wrath and the Curse of Allaah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him”

[al-Nisa’ 4:93]

al-Bukhaari (6355) narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The believer will continue to be encompassed by the mercy of Allaah so long as he does not shed blood that it is forbidden to shed.”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has explained to us the reasons for which it becomes permissible to shed this blood. He said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god but Allaah and that I am the Messenger of Allaah except in three cases: a life for a life (murder), zina of one of who is previously-married (adultery), and the one who changes his religion and forsakes the jamaa’ah.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6370) and Muslim (3175). From this it is clear that zina on the part of one who is married is one of the reasons that make it permissible to kill a person, but the zaani (adulterer) cannot be killed unless two conditions are met:

-1-

He should be previously-married. The scholars have explained what is meant by previously-married in this case. Zakariya al-Ansaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Asna’l-Mataalib (4/128): The previously-married person, whether male or female, is any adult of sound mind who has previously had intercourse within a valid marriage. End quote. Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Sharh al-Zaad (6/120): There are five conditions for (being described as) previously-married:

1- Intercourse

2- Within a valid marriage

3- Being an adult

4- Being of sound reason

5- Being free (i.e., not a slave).

End quote.

-2-

The second condition is that it should be proven that the hadd punishment is deserved, by the testimony of four male witnesses who saw the private parts meet, or the person should freely admit to having committed zina, without being forced to do so.

If it is proven that he deserves the hadd punishment, it is not permissible for individuals to carry out this punishment themselves. Rather the matter must be referred to the ruler or his deputy to prove the crime and carry out the punishment, because if individuals carry out hadd punishments, that will lead to a great deal of corruption and evil.

Ibn Muflih al-Hanbali (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Furoo’ (6/53): It is haraam for anyone to carry out a hadd punishment except the ruler or his deputy. This is something on which the fuqaha’ of Islam are unanimously agreed, as was stated in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (5/280): The fuqaha’ are unanimously agreed that the one who should carry out hadd punishments is the ruler or his deputy, whether the punishment is transgressing one of the limits of Allaah, may He be exalted, such as zina, or a transgression against another person, such as slander. End quote.

Concealing one who has committed this evil deed so that he may repent and set his affairs straight before he dies is better than exposing him, let alone killing him. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) turned away from Maa’iz (may Allaah be pleased with him) after he admitted committing zina, and he ignored him until he had repeated his confession several times, then he carried out the hadd punishment on him.

Based on this, that which is called “honour killing” is a transgression and wrongdoing, because it is killing one who does not deserve to be killed, namely the virgin if she commits zina (fornication), but the shar’i punishment in her case is flogging and banishment for one year, not execution, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “(The punishment for zina) of a virgin with a virgin person is one hundred lashes and exile for one year.” Narrated by Muslim. The one who kills her has killed a believing soul whom Allaah has forbidden to be killed, and there is a stern warning concerning that, as Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah, nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse ___ and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.

  1. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace”

[al-Furqaan 25:68-69]

Even if we assume that she deserves to be executed (if she was previously-married and committed zina), no one should do that but the ruler – as stated above. Moreover, in many cases killing is done on the basis of accusations and speculation, without proving whether the immoral action even took place.

And Allaah knows best.

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answered 1.6k313 sadie's gravatar image

"Killing a Muslim unlawfully is a serious matter and a grave crime" so how about a none muslim? and what is unlawfully.

there is an "honor" killing in the koran. so why would you not follow that example?

(Aug 19 '13 at 11:16) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

so. a man can kill his daughter if she has sex? and thats ok for him to do? honestly?

(Aug 20 '13 at 15:26) a_mohammed a_mohammed's gravatar image

No. Zina is hadd punishment of 100 lashes. Sister your allowing all mikes twisted words and ways confuse you in sha Allah it doesn't ruin your iman. Also this is one source of research do the work to find the haqq sister. Salam

(Aug 21 '13 at 01:48) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

no thats not where i got it from. i knew a family and the father killed his 2 daughters and wife. cuz of it.

(Aug 21 '13 at 04:52) a_mohammed a_mohammed's gravatar image

a_mo, i'm sorry for your loss. i was thinking about this last night. seemed like something close to home got ya down. unfortunately the older we get the more of the world and we see. and the world is full of death. friend of mine's father just died saturday of cancer. there was this story yesterday about three teens in oklahoma shooting a college baseball player in the back and killing him because they were "bored". i know you don't read the news for this very reason, but what the father said was rather insightful in my twisted mind.

(Aug 21 '13 at 10:28) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

"trying to figure out why this happened is a short trip to insanity".

when you got me thinking last night someting popped in my head from my days as a catholic. in school we would do the stations of the cross. one was, god give me the courage to change the things i can, the strength to endure the things i can't change and the wisdom to know the difference. something like that. there is some good in most religions. you just have to weed out the bad, like the hudood. remember you asked me what i don't like about the koran, 24:2 was one of the verses i listed.

(Aug 21 '13 at 10:37) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

he killed them all in their sleep. turned on the gas, and locked all the doors from the outside...

(Aug 21 '13 at 15:44) a_mohammed a_mohammed's gravatar image

that sucks. sorry.

(Aug 21 '13 at 16:08) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

@abul rauf honor killing in the quran, chapter and verse please. Beloved sister your abswer is answered very easy. There is no authenticated sunnah or quranic verse that codones this practice. This means whatever father does this isnwrong and it is not islam. Mike will be waiting for those ayahs...salaam

(Aug 22 '13 at 03:47) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

yep...that sucks

(Aug 22 '13 at 04:26) a_mohammed a_mohammed's gravatar image

18:74, explained in 18:80,81. al-khidr kills a boy so he can be replaced with a child of greater purity. i know you are going to tell me that he was acting on behalf of god. here's the point dude. if you tell people the koran is perfect and the will of god. and someone reads about how an agent of god kills a boy for disobediences and ungratefulness, it only stands to reason that someone might think it is ok to kill their child for being....you guessed it.

sorry to have keep u waiting.

(Aug 22 '13 at 10:39) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

incase you don't own a koran

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

[18.74] So they went on until, when they met a boy, he slew him. (Musa) said: Have you slain an innocent person otherwise than for manslaughter? Certainly you have done an evil thing. ....[18.80] And as for the boy, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should make disobedience and ingratitude to come upon them:[18.81] So we desired that their Lord might give them in his place one better than him in purity and nearer to having compassion.

(Aug 22 '13 at 10:42) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image
1

@abul rauf, I know the verse well, and we must not negate the fact that al kidhr told musa the reason for all of his actions. But that does not mean for anyone Muslim or not to take this interpert it in anyway other than what was revealed.Anyone who does what you said is a kafir, for Allah has said to kill one person unjustly it is as if he killed the whole of humanity. This verse does not confirm this act and as you saud one can interpert it, but that would be from his own qiyas opinion, and the first to use such was iblis.Get my point. Salaam

(Aug 22 '13 at 14:18) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

i get your point. and i know verse 5:32 well, as well. you only partialy quoted it. because of this we did ordain unto the children of israel, that if you slay one man, UNLEES IT BE PUNISHMENT FOR MURDER OR SPEADING CORRUPTION, it shall be as if he has slain all mankind....and then 5:33 repeats the saying: it is but a just recompense for those who make war on allah and his apostle and ENDEAVOR TO SPREAD CORRUPTION ON EARTH, that they be slain in great numbers, be crucifed in great number, have their hands and feet cut of in great numbers....[emphasis mine].

why do you think i ask what is

(Aug 23 '13 at 10:26) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

SPREADING CORRUPTION? you say unjustly, sadie said unlawfully. "we must not negate the fact that al kidhr told musa the reason for all of his actions." i'm not negating his reason. just the opposite, i'm saying his reason is exactly what honor killings in the islamic world is based on. to replace the child with one of greater purity. girl wouldn't wear her headscarf father and brother kill her. girl looks at a boy mother throws acid on her. these are disobedient children. maybe ungrateful too. right? justified therefore, by the koran itself.

(Aug 23 '13 at 10:39) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

No mike there is no hudud for a woman not wearing the hijab so if her brother and father kill her they are acting on their own for Allah told al khidhr that the boy will replaced by a better one, what would anyone that attempts to use this ayah to commit a crime stand on. In islam there something called tasfir and if one looks to the tasfir if the ayah in question they will find the moral of the story was to teach patience to musa. So how can one get honor killing from that such a one is a kafir. Understand mike this simple point.

(Aug 23 '13 at 13:12) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

The other ayahs you mentioned is dealing with war against the guidance sent down to govern the affairs of men. To go against this is to spread corruption just like in the USA if one goes against the constitution or the laws established by men this one is considered a criminal and depending on how far he carrys his mischief will determine whether one dies or spend time or the rest of his life in prison. And you accept this system and support it, but you come on this islamic site and cause havoc because Muslim do there best to implement what the laws of Allah says. Salaam

(Aug 23 '13 at 13:23) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

i understand the moral of the story is patience. and that even though we may think we know something, we may not have all the facts and shouldn't jump to conclusions. good morals to learn. bad story to accomplish that. should have left the killing out. the hole in the boat was enough. as for what a "honor" killer would stand on. you would have to ask them. the woman in pakistan told reports it was the will of allah that she die like that, after throwing acid on her own daughter. i would guess their arguement would be that i saved her from committing a greater sin. i was only protecting her

(Aug 23 '13 at 14:27) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

soul from damnation. simple point to me and you. some aren't getting the point though. what is it you think motivates a mother to through acid on her daughter because she looked at a boy? you don't think all this concern over fornication and adultry plays a role. no hudud on wearing hijab. ok. is there fiqh. women in sudan sentenced to 10 lashes for wearing pants. were does that come from. i don't know if you know much about america? but muslims aren't having the easiest time of it after 9/11. there are some who don't want any mosques built, etc. etc. then some jackass might go and vandalize

(Aug 23 '13 at 14:39) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

a mosque. then muslims say that the people who are saying things are creating an anti-islamic atmosphere. and that they share some responsibility for the vandalism. i think, strange because the koran creates an atmosphere of hatred against non-believers and polytheist. but no one seems to see it. so what do you think of the amnesty international woman's quote above. there is hudud about fornication. is she making war against the "guidance". i am 100% against sharia being allowed in american courts. so am i spreading corruption? "Muslim do there best to implement what the laws of Allah says."

(Aug 23 '13 at 14:48) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

that's exactly what scares me.

always fun talking to ya yaqin. you stay save. peace.

(Aug 23 '13 at 14:50) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image
showing 5 of 21 show all

My brother, there is no such as "Honor Killing" in Islam, taking life of a human is one of the biggest sin in Islam. But in war, which means they are coming to kill you, then you have right to defend yourself and attack the attacking force until they have been defeated or given up, so they don't come to attack you again, or if some one is being wronged, you have the right to attack these wrongdoers to free the wronged people, but after they give up, you have to accept it and not kill. Muslims are known to respect the enemy warriors, they give them good hospitality until they are recovered, and send them back home with bounty and followers so they arrive safe. But today unfortunately the Muslims act barbaric because they have gone into extremism, which the Jews and the Christians had gone into at the time of prophet Muhammad(Peace be on him).

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answered 4411138 UnknownUser's gravatar image
edited Aug 18 '13 at 16:29

no. i mean when a father has the right to kill his daughter because shes done something that isnt allowed in islam. its happening it happens and has happened and will keep on happening. thanks.

(Aug 19 '13 at 01:40) a_mohammed a_mohammed's gravatar image

Yeah, just like in every society on earth, if you commit a crime you might get the death penalty. But in Islam there is also spiritual crime, we believe in one God. Example: if your married with a person and you go have sex with another person, then you receive the death penalty only if there is 4 witnesses WHO CAUGHT YOU IN THE ACT. Just think about it, this penalty happens very rare.

(Aug 19 '13 at 10:07) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

there are many societies on earth without the death penalty. so what are these spiritual crimes? not believing in god, is that a spiritual crime that demands the death penalty? 4 witnesses. you do know witnesses are considered to be the worst kind of evidence. so dna and physical evidence, ballistics, gunpowder residue don't count as proof of crimes? did you see the case in the uae last month were the woman said she was raped and the guy said he didn't. do to the lack of 4 witnesses she was charged with zina and sentenced to jail. sharia is terrible law.

(Aug 19 '13 at 11:01) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

god life is depressing sometimes.

(Aug 20 '13 at 15:27) a_mohammed a_mohammed's gravatar image

a_mo, don't worry about her. she was norweigian. her government got her out. she is back home, save and sound. will probably never do business in the uae again.

you alright? don't let the world bring ya down.

(Aug 20 '13 at 16:40) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Abul rauf.

I'm pretty sure if the Quran said "do a DNA test", people of that time would have scratched their heads :P They didn't have that kind of technology. With 4 witnesses was the best case scenario for that era. The Quran tells you to follow the laws of the country you live in; the punishment for adultery is 100 lashes. Also, in a case like zina where the law says 4 witnesses are needed, but there is proof of knowledge that she was indeed raped and that knowledge is ignored, then the country is not following the Quran. Always take the better route over the lesser route. Alhamdulillah

(Aug 20 '13 at 19:45) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

hehe im trying mike

(Aug 21 '13 at 04:51) a_mohammed a_mohammed's gravatar image

afg, yes i understand dna was unknown to people of the 7th century. but that would have been a miracle and proof of divine revelation. not "the mountains hold down the earth or life begins with a comingling of fluids. so you arbogated the divine punishment of rajam with the 24th surah. baby steps to a sane world. so you translate zina as both adultry and fornication. you see no difference in the punishment for a wife who cheats on her husband and an engaged woman who has sex with her fiance?

what is the punishment for a rapist? what if the person dies from the lashes?

mike

(Aug 21 '13 at 10:47) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23792120

EIVL DOING WESTERNERS.

"No-one should ever be prosecuted for sex outside marriage in the first place."

[2.11] And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in the land, they say: We are but peace-makers. [2.12] Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers, but they do not perceive.

amnesty international is surely full of shaitan. how dare they question the law of allah.

(Aug 22 '13 at 13:35) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image
showing 5 of 9 show all

I am a moderator at q&a and community. There is a FAQ in this site I suggest to you that you read it. I didn't make the rules here I simply try to enforce and maintain them. Using profanity and chatting it up and this forum isn't encouraged its discouraged. If chatting is what your looking for go pm someone in community that's why its there. Regulating an Islamic site shouldn't be compared to taking someone's life. Its my job as a Muslim woman to forbid what's haram like people using profanity and encourage what's halal like speaking like a Muslim . I hope that I helped clear up your confusion on deleting your words. Someone else Insha Allah can discuss with you about so called honor killing". Salam

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answered 1.6k313 sadie's gravatar image
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this didnt answer my question that i asked thanks salam

(Aug 19 '13 at 01:39) a_mohammed a_mohammed's gravatar image
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Asked: Aug 18 '13 at 03:37

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