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what are all the changes to the bible that the muslims believe happened? i always thought it was only the crucifixion and the paulinian doctrine of the trinity. but has the old testement been changed as well?

asked (suspended) abul%20rauf's gravatar image

That's an easy one. Anything that dictates what the Qur'an says Would be an alter and falsehood.!. And anything that coincides with the Qur'an is the haqq. Right guys?!. Alhamdulillah for the final revelation The Qur'an. And blessed be our beloved prophet sallallahu allahi WA Salam.

(Aug 24 '13 at 19:57) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

Are Muslims waiting for the judgement day?

(Aug 24 '13 at 20:30) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Of coarse. That's a promise from our lord.

(Aug 24 '13 at 21:07) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

So it is so... But if Muslims are waiting for judgement day, then why dont they read the Quran?

(Aug 25 '13 at 07:30) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

sadie, the reason i asked this question is because stronghold brought up the story of the golden calf. i knew the bible said that aaron gathered the gold and lead the israelittes in making the golden calf. but i had to google what the koran said. it says that samiri gathered the gold to make the calf and that aaron tried to guide the people back to moses and the right path.

(Aug 25 '13 at 17:39) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Flanders why do you insinuate that we don't?

(Aug 26 '13 at 01:08) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

why would the bible lie about aaron?

(Aug 26 '13 at 10:30) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Sadie: If you would have, then you would have and understood you would know more than you already know. There are things that readers don´t see..

(Aug 27 '13 at 04:58) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image
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Mike I'm glad you know that I was not calling you a monster, I was making a blanket statement, I don't ascribe to the holier than thou concept. For I Yaqin Abdul Al Shafiq Muhammad is a recovering devil. My Jihad ul Nafs (inner struggle) is a constant battle, my reference to a monster includes me also. Just wanted to put that out there. Salaam

answered 8331145 yaqin's gravatar image

no worries buddy. it's all good. i like your AA referance. lol. never been but i think the first step is accepting jesus christ as you lord and savoir. lol. maybe second, first is admitting you have a problem. did you see the news out of saudi arabia today?

you take it easy, i'll check ya on the flip side.

(Aug 28 '13 at 15:59) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Abdul Rauf what are you trying to bring up here?

(Aug 28 '13 at 16:50) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

You should rather ask what are the lies in the Quran?

answered 0543146 UnknownUser's gravatar image
edited Aug 24 '13 at 18:47

Their aren't any lies in the quran. if you want to test what I say then prove it by doing research and make sure it is 100% accurate. not by what your friends say. If you prove anything in the quran wrong send it to me. As for the bible there are contradictions such as In verse 14, after Moses appeased God, God changes his mind in verse 14 and decides to go with the Jews. But it says god is unchangeable. Also Christians worship jesus which is believed to be the sun of god. When I was searching for a religion that was something I began to question. Why do Christians worship the son of god.

(Aug 25 '13 at 16:41) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

OK... What started the belief in God?

(Aug 25 '13 at 16:50) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Proof of worship:the cross,singing about Jesus,saying things like thank you Jesus. What is gods part in Christianity?Also im starting to get confused about if Jesus is god or if he is the son of god because peoples call Jesus the lord.why are their so many beliefs in Christianity and so many different books?I have done research on Christianity before coming to Islam a found that the words are changed in other languages and they change the meanings of the bible. How do you know what bible is original and which bibles were changed? The original Quran was in Arabic.What was the bibles origin lang

(Aug 25 '13 at 16:56) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Also prophet Muhammad is in the bible. Look it up on YouTube or Google. Don't take offense I'm just asking questions if im wrong about anything then please correct me with proof not from your own brain because I don't want any false information. May Allah guide us to the straight path

(Aug 25 '13 at 17:03) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

You answer my question with a question. OK I see... I will answer you at least, if you read the Bible and try to calculate... And if you read the Quran and calculate like in the Bible. What answer do you come to? You know everything has it meaning, OK prophet Muhammad had his meaning and Jesus had his meaning. Both came to fulfill, so what did they fulfill?

(Aug 25 '13 at 17:06) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

You say the Quran is 100% right.. Hmm that is something to think of, if it is 100% right. How is that possible first of all? And if that is true, then answer my question asked about how many important things is said in the Quran? There are some words, there is some things told again and there is some things that is told only once. What is what? The question was asked for a little time since..

(Aug 25 '13 at 18:31) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Flanders I deleted your last question because you can't keep asking more questions in a question. Read the FAQ. Salam

(Aug 26 '13 at 01:17) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

But you know if you can answer my question then you have the answers for what you are asking for...

(Aug 26 '13 at 08:19) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

soa, when did jews worship ezra as the son of god? nor did the pharoahs crucify people. as for your god changing his mind, it seems to happen all the time.

(Aug 26 '13 at 10:57) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Hmm you say the Jews said Ezra is the son of God, my god you say changed his mind often... Does the Quran say that? Do you know who your God is?

(Aug 26 '13 at 13:03) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

no i didn't say the jews say ezra is the son of god, the koran says it. and no the koran doesn't say that god changes his mind often, i said that. sorry for the confusion.

me. i have no god. the bible contradicts itself, the koran contradicts itself, and they contradict each other. the god of abraham is selfcontradicting throughout. the old testement says to burn people for punishment, muhammad is quoted as saying not to use god's punishment, fire. the old testment says to stone people to death. jesus is reported to say, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, arborgating stoning.

(Aug 26 '13 at 13:14) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

then muhammad, "god's final prophet" stones people.

(Aug 26 '13 at 13:15) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

And the final one to come is God, is it not?

(Aug 26 '13 at 13:27) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

no. there is no god.

(Aug 26 '13 at 13:30) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

You two should write a book called all questions NO answers. Flanders Abdul (mike) doesn't believe in god. Just so we are clear at least he explains his position. I am still waiting for you too.

(Aug 26 '13 at 13:35) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

אתה בלי אמונה! אתה לא תיאמן! التي يجب أن لا يقول. الله وحده يعلم ما كنت لا تعرف

(Aug 26 '13 at 13:38) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

dude i say things i'm not supposed to say all the time. and certainly if there is a god he would know what i don't. but he wouldn't act like this. so yes i'm without faith. but i'm pretty well coordinated.

(Aug 26 '13 at 14:02) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Ohh you made a joke or?

Isaiah 7:17 The Lord shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.

Isaiah 8:11-13 For the Lord spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. 13 Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.

What? Who??

(Aug 26 '13 at 15:33) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Sadie are you waiting for me in something?

(Aug 26 '13 at 16:23) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Yes I am waiting for you to explain your faith to me.

(Aug 26 '13 at 23:31) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

My faith... hmm... Hard to say when you don´t know. Who is talked about but not acknowledge, who is loved but not understood, who is feared but not seen?

(Aug 27 '13 at 05:18) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

But Sadie does it not show really? Can you tell me your faith to me?

(Aug 27 '13 at 13:26) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image
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@Abul Rauf, for months I have watched you do whatever it took to remain on this site, whst puzxles me is that I can't recall you ever stating what governs you as a human being I know you donot believe in the creator for you claim the concept is a man made one, but not believing is also a man made concept. So please state your position and lets debate that. For your scientific theory is not perfect if you claim belief in the creator has flaws so do your claims. But you nrver disclose them so we muslim on this site could pick it apart using what has been revealed. What do you believe!!!

answered 8331145 yaqin's gravatar image

what governs me is simple. i hope to come to an agreeance as to what should govern humanity. i think hudud and sharia to the larger part is a poor form of governance. is this not clear? my position. i don't think people should be lashed or stoned or crucified or have their hands or feet cut off. i don't think if someone decides not to be a muslim anymore they should be put to death for it. my position is that sharia should not rule the world. i've claimed no perfection. not in science or theory. you claim perfection. not me. all concepts are man made. i believe in randomnees. an earthquake

(Aug 25 '13 at 16:59) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

hits because of fault lines. a hurricane strikes because of weather conditions. a flood happens becasue of rain.

but if you think all things are the will of allah, then you must think that allah kills women and chldren because of his WILL. let's debate. the first born killed by allah during the passover. what did an egyptian baby do to deserve that? innocent children? fire and brimestone did not kill innocent children? all that fornicating do you not think there were children in sodom and gamorah. the great flood?

(Aug 25 '13 at 17:16) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

My my mike so you have a heart, well to answer you according to the story the pharoah brought the demise down on his people from his own lips. And yes in Sodom and gamoorah I suspect they may have been children just like there was children in Japan, iraq, Afghanistan, vietnam,germany,Qadafi house,and this has nothing to do with the shariah or the laws of moses but everything to do with the systems in place. The hold purpose of man made laws is to detere the people from committing crimes. What is the difference with the laws of the creator.

(Aug 25 '13 at 18:29) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

haha haha, did you think me heartless. fair enough. you miss the point entirely. a just god would not punish the innocent for the crimes of the ruler. why not just kill the pharoah. why the first born male throughout the land. image some poor egyptian farmer waking up to find his new born son dead in his crib. this is not a just action. right?

alright now, someone who remembers the 86 bombing of the disco in berlin. our retaliation of bombing khadafhi's house, killing what? one wife two kids. the french wouldn't let us use their airspace. we lost a f-16 and it's pilot. lockerbie.

(Aug 25 '13 at 18:39) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

the big statues of the fists with planes in their grip. a great victory for the muslims. y'all crack me up. it was the anniversry of the 53 coup in iran the other day. or have you forgotten. i know the world map and history fairly well. you continue to miss the point. your god has proven himself to be brutal over and over agian. it's not about comparing the actions of man to god. one would hope god would win every time. but that is not so. it's about your god not rising to the level of goddom. (if you allow me to make up a word) "the best of planners"??? please.

(Aug 25 '13 at 18:47) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

"The hold purpose of man made laws is to detere the people from committing crimes." true. well there is some deterence and some concept of rehabilitation.
"What is the difference with the laws of the creator." they are bad laws. you can't go around lashing 14 year old girls. you can't stone people to death. you can't kill people for blasphemy or aposaty.

(Aug 25 '13 at 18:51) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

In islam we have an obligation to enjoin the good and forbid the evil, understand this first, and it is you who is missing the point, pharoah condemed his people with what he sought to do to the tribes. Also, never would I compare the laws sent down to the ones put in place by men. Rehibiltation is a joke, that department do nothing but house people like cattle, and that is a deterrent. Then why is the recidivism so high? No I didn't say Qadafi bombing had anything to do with the laws, for we both know it was the law of men that feuled the act. History proves the failure of man's laws,

(Aug 25 '13 at 22:45) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

As the scriptures prove the properity of man when abided by the laws to govern the affairs of men. You kuffars kill me, as you think that you know something when you fall subjected to the laws willingfully or unwillingfully. Yes Allah is the best of planners, but in the plan man has a choice, so the actions you attribute to muslims is a slight on those of us that donot ascribe to the maddness being pushed around the glibe in the name of islam but it is truly hislam, if I may make up a word. You say you can't stone people so you rather lethal injection?

(Aug 25 '13 at 22:53) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

no one has ever been lethally injected because of an ex-maritial affair. i used to be pro-death penalty. then when dna evidence came on the scene, several death row inmates were exonorated by it. so now i'm against all death penalties, even for murder, but especially for adultry. several good friends would have been stoned to death already. of course men fail. part of our nature. funny that god's greatest creation is so proned to failure. "forbid the evil" your definition of evil is too broad, and your means to forbid it too brutal. so a new born is held liabel for the actions of a ruler?

(Aug 26 '13 at 10:49) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

and this is a just god in your eyes?

(Aug 26 '13 at 10:50) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

@Abul Rauf I have yet to see someone win a debate against you

(Aug 26 '13 at 23:58) mo_18 mo_18's gravatar image

That is funny because I've yet to see him win.

(Aug 27 '13 at 01:58) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

Well he usually gets the last word

(Aug 27 '13 at 03:35) mo_18 mo_18's gravatar image

well that's because arguing isn't the aim when it comes to the truth. Sometimes ya gotta let the person work it out on their own.

(Aug 27 '13 at 03:46) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

Sadie you understand now, yes people have to work it out for them self´s. But when they can´t see who is who and what is what then some help can be needed. That you Sadie still deny, that´s like someone has to open that tie... And you and Muslim´s also keep doing lies, that´s just gonna make you a mies. So get back on height!

(Aug 27 '13 at 05:11) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

@mike I just seen your post, and to answer your question for isee you still don't get the point in the pharoahs situation. He brought upon his people, and who says that man is the creator's greatest crration. Chapter and verse please. You say something is broad but that is a two way street your wickedness is broader as you have claimed many of your friends would be stoned for their vain desires. You waddle in the feces of a system that has contributed to pure wickedness. Your logic id frightening

(Aug 27 '13 at 08:29) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

@mo18, mike can't win for the foudation he is upon is nothing but devilishment. Most times his anthics doesn't need to be addressed, for he shows his ignorance with his words. Debate he doesn't do, he just pose questions that are answered in the books, if Allah has decreed it , the believer hears and obeys. dont be fooled by foolish anthics. Dalaam

(Aug 27 '13 at 08:40) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

yaqin, i undestand the story of the passover. you seem to keep missing the point of collective punishment is not fair, and certainly not godly. a 2 year-old male egyptian who has nothing to do with the decisions of the pharoah should not be punished, would not punished by a just god. so if that logic frightens you, then what can i say. you have a strange definition of just. you really have a hard time seperating the actions of people in the same society. i do have friends who have cheated on their wives. what does that have to do with MY wickedness. feces of a system, that's a good one. means

(Aug 27 '13 at 09:59) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

It has plenty to do with your wickedness for you condone the act as if it is good. Also the collective justice was implemented by the pharoah, just as before when the pharoah ordered the murder of babies when moses was born, what was the age? And these children were murdered in their beds some was drowned in the river nile. So injustice to the hebrew children was given back to the Egyptian children by the same mouth of the pharaohs, and that was justice.

(Aug 27 '13 at 10:13) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

nothing. but paints quite the picture. ironic given that in the 90s we had to give egypt 300 million to rebuild cario's sewer system. lol.

i didn't say it, this guy says it Shaykh Zulfiqar Ahmad. amoung others i'm sure. why have the angels bow to him. 2nd chapter verse 30 something.

"Allah Says in the Holy Quran:

We have indeed created man in the best of moulds (95:4)

The Holy Quran thus bears witness that Allah created man as the best of creation. Why has man been awarded such status? Is it because of form or character?"

(Aug 27 '13 at 10:19) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

The quran also says man is weak and ungrateful, the angels bowing adam doesn't mean that adam was the best creation, this was a honor bestowed on him for the knowledge given to him that the angels didn't know. Sorry mike I'm not a shaykh follower, I'm not that ascribe to the mindset that if a shaykh says it then itmust be true. Especially when Iit goes against the words of Allah. The best mould has everthing to do with character, for Rasul was sent to correct the character if mankind. Man is the author of great wickedness, and immorality. The shaykh Qayyim was asked what should islam do for me

(Aug 27 '13 at 10:54) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

He said it shiuld give you the exempt character amongst mankind. For Allah has stated in the QUR'AN he is of the best character to follow. Man being the best mould id when he hears and obey...

(Aug 27 '13 at 10:58) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

hey look at that. we agree, man is not the best of creation. you know what nietzsche said: woman was god's second mistake. yes man is weak and ungrateful, so no one in their right mind would believe him to be the best. except a few muslims i guess.

so i'm wicked for not stoning adulterers. so my lack of punishment is condoning their actions. i think it is a matter between husband and wife. none of my business. the more you try to justify allah's law, the scarier it gets. now we have a cross generational punishment. son is guilty for the sins of the father. i'm guilty for the sin of friends

(Aug 27 '13 at 11:19) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

"So injustice to the hebrew children was given back to the Egyptian children by the same mouth of the pharaohs, and that was justice."

so the egyptian children caused the injustice, before they were even born. and my logic is frightening. your justification would sit well with al-qaeda, boston bombers and others. american bombs kill muslim children, so it is by bush's/obama's mouth (whatever that means) that we kill american children.

(Aug 27 '13 at 11:27) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Mike you are funny, but the point I was making is the law of an eye for an eye, though Allah says it is best to forgive.Had pharaoh let the tribes go he Egyptians would have recieved mercy for their wrong, but he didn't and his arrogance isn what condemned his people who sat around and watched the injustice take place. Never would condone or support anything of the mindset of those whom you mentioned, your analogy is whack for the aqeedah of the you are speakin is KUFR. That is my pisition. No the children didn't it was the actions of the tyrant that governed the land. What did the isrealite

(Aug 27 '13 at 12:07) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Children do to be murdered? It was the actions of men that brought about the event. Your biasness has you eyes blinded,stop blaming the actions of the few on the many.

(Aug 27 '13 at 12:11) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

thanks i do my best at humor. my baisness has me blind? you continue to justify the killing of innocent children (or now they aren't innocent because of the actions of their leader and forefathers or their inaction?). either way it is your blind faith that has you defending the indefencable. now you want children to rise up and overthrow the pharoah. now that's funny.

so what is it. an eye for an eye, a baby for it's fathers sins, i should stone my friend for the sake of social harmony. or wait, now you say it is best to forgive. would not this forgiveness lead to a feces of a system.

(Aug 27 '13 at 13:04) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

"What did the isrealite Children do to be murdered?" if i remember the story right. the pharoah had a dream or an oracle tell him a slave boy would be born you would be his downfall. so he ordered them all killed. but as we should all learn for greek mythology you can't out run the future. (see edopus rex)

passover is not a true story. but if it were it would be proof as to your god being no better than the pharoah. abusing his power and punishing the innocent for no fault of their own.

when fighting monsters, one must be careful not to become the monster he fights.

sadie, how am i doing?

(Aug 27 '13 at 13:13) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

I'm not defending anything I just say what the book says what happened, the creator didn't abuse anything the man was doing such for the last plague he spoke it in to existence. He wss given a choice and made his and in that choice he met the qadr of Allah. No biggie. True Allah says it is best to taje the blood money and forgive, but did Allah say to impelement anything outside of what has bern sent down to govern the affairs of men. Also not the children rise up but the parent's. Well mike I suggest you hold fast to your advicefor the monster is you.

(Aug 27 '13 at 14:53) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Stop this calling names... You know there is more behind what you already know in religion. You can take what you feel is right, but you see people not realizing what is needed.

(Aug 27 '13 at 15:00) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

good morning yaqin,

"we have meet the enemy and he is us". no doubt. keeping my monster restrained is a daily battle. bad enough man kills man but for the dispenser of grace to do it is ungodly to say the least. and when his "prophets" kill women and children it sets a bad tone. what do you think of moses's treatment of the midianites?

so explaining that the pharoah murdered boys was not a defense of god murdering boys. but me saying that i have friends who have commited adulty is me condoning their actions. you and i appear to be speaking different languages. but ok, so it is just what

(Aug 28 '13 at 09:50) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

the book says. good. now can we agree not to blindly follow what some book says. especially books over 1000 years old.

(Aug 28 '13 at 09:52) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image
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Asked: Aug 24 '13 at 16:40

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Last updated: Aug 28 '13 at 16:50

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