If a father was in a situation during the birth of his child where the doctors told him he had to choose whose life to save, since they could only save one of them (and they had the same chances of survival, which one should he choose? If the mother is conscious, should she decide?

asked 10 zfadil995's gravatar image

if the mother is conscious she should decide. if she is unconscious then the father must decide. but these things should be discussed before hand and a concensus reached. but if that hasn't happened then you might as well flip a coin. but if the father hates his baby's mama, the answer is obvious. or if the parents weren't realy happy about the baby coming, again obvious.

or maybe math is needed. if the father = 100 mother = 90 and baby = 10 then you have 200/3 = 66.6 repeating. thusly the whole family is of the devil. killem all. whahaha.

(Oct 01 '13 at 17:38) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

This reply is for brother Yaqin and his question regarding the tyrant and thus answers the original question indirectly.

Brother Yaqin,

You know how to ask a ‘thinking’ question and it is good for our brain muscle and the knowledge which is gained so may Alaah SWT bless you for that. Here is my research and thinking revealed for your feedback: Tazahum ul-WAJaaIB is the jurisprudence of priorities. Priorities have two divisions: ‎

  1. Al-Awwal (The first and foremost duties)

  2. Al-Awwaaliyat (which means the most important duties out of the foremost duties) The duties or actions which have priorities to precede others must be based upon the Shari'ah.

So the Sharia Definitions are as follows:

  1. Al-Awwal: The duties or the activities which take Priority

  2. Al-Awwaaliyat:‎ The duties or the activities which have priorities to precede other priorities The Shariah look to the Qur’an and the Sunnah which indicate what are the most important or ‎most favoured priorities and outweighs them against other duties.‎

So, the Quran is the first source of legislation in Islam and the Prophet's Sunnah is the second source of legislation and both should be referred to for guidance.

Now to have a look at the situation which you have chosen for our illustrative purposes:

Here we have a tyrant who is holding captured Muslim brothers as a human shield.

Freeing people from tyranny and exploitation by oppressive systems was one of the missions of Prophet Muhammad(S).

And Allah SWT says:

"And why should you not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? Men, women, and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You, one who will protect; and raise for us from You, one who will help'." 4:75

The Qur'an permits fighting to defend the religion of Islam and the Muslims. This permission includes fighting in self defence and for the protection of family and property.

"Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ... And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." 2:190,193 Fighting the tyrant as it relates to the victory of Islam becomes a first and foremost duty, or a priority (al-awwal).

In relation to protecting the brothers in Islam, Alaah SWT says:

'And hold fast , all of you together to the rope of Allah , and do not separate' (3:103)

'And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends of one another, they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong' (9:71)

'Te believers are naught else than brothers. Therefore make peace between your brethren and observe your duty to Allah that haply ye may obtain mercy' (49:10)

The Prophet (SAW) said: 'You will see the believers in their mutual kindness, love and sympathy just like one body. When a limb complains, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever' (Muslim and Bukhari)

"You shall not enter Paradise until you believe; and you will not believe until you love one another. Shall I not guide you to a thing? Which when done, will make you love one another: Spread the greeting of Salam among you"- (Muslim)

“A muslim is a brother to a Muslim: Neither he wrongs him, nor hands him over (to another). And who so comes in need of his brother , Allah comes in his need ;and who so removes a calamity of a Muslim, Allah will remove a calamity from the calamities of the Resurrection Day, and who so conceals the faults of a Muslim, Allah will conceal his sins on the Resurrection Day” (Bukhari and Muslim)

Thus, protecting the brothers in Islam also becomes a first and foremost duty, or a priority (al-awwal).

Now, we have to ask ourselves ‘Which of these two duties have priority (Al-Awwaaliyat) over the other?

In this case, it is the defence and victory of Islam that takes precedence over the brothers because Islam is the right way and the salvation for the whole of mankind.

answered 5205 stronghold's gravatar image
edited Oct 02 '13 at 07:34


This is an excellent answer, brother.

May Allah (Subhana wa Ta'ala)reward you for your scholarship.

(Oct 02 '13 at 07:48) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Salaam brother,....No scholarship in this area, just humble research, some mental gymnastics, caution and seeking from Alaah SWT. I am keen whenever time allows. I learn much from the likes of yourself. Brother Yaqin keeps the bar moving and yeah, that's a good thing.

(Oct 02 '13 at 09:02) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

Salam brother,

We learn from each other. And yes, brother Yaqin (and sister Sadie for that matter) have a tendency to exercise our brain cells!

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:53) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

congratulations strongbow, you just justified terrorism. the establishment of islam throughtout the world is the top priority of muslims. so the kenyan in england was justified in slitting that guys throat? the boston bombers were justified in striking at the great satan,for america is oppressing the afghans and iraqis and of cousre the jew oppressthe palestinians. human shields/civilians be damned. islam must rule. the southern philipines needs an islam state? indonesia needs an islamic state? thailand? england? america? where ever muslims are they need to follow sharia? an islamic state?

(Oct 02 '13 at 11:18) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

No Mike the brother is not saying that, those and whoever takes part in anything you have described is not muslim and I don't care what they say. When it comes to this we are in agreement where we sepetate is when you base it as a islamic practice an it is not.salaam mike

(Oct 02 '13 at 11:28) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

so how is it that muslims justify terror attacks. clearly there is something in islam which they believe not only allows them but actually calls for them and will reward you for them. the hadith on killing the polytheists' women and children? oppression is worst than death? now you are saying it is alright to kill your own if the end goal is to establish islam, throughout the world. so if we change your scenerio a little, 1)the captives are muslim women and children? then what? 2)what if the human shields are non-muslims?

and back to the original question. mother or baby? shalom

(Oct 02 '13 at 11:51) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Mike the rule would apply to women and children and non muslim, you are correct there is a element in the hearts of kufr that justify their actions and that element is deceit and vain desires and blind following. Shaloam Lakum

(Oct 02 '13 at 13:21) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
showing 5 of 7 show all

Salaam, lets approach this question islamically inshallah, in islam there is a concept called Tazahum:this when two factors meet at the sametime and the laws of islam must be applyed to both. Example: There is a tyrant that has captured Muslims soldiers in a war, the tyrant uses the captured muslims as a human sheild, meaning the only way to get to the enemy the muslims would have to kill there brothers. If they don't then Islam will be defeated and if they do they would have killed innocent brothers. What should be done???? The answer to this question of tazahum will answer this question asked, inshallah. Please answer.....

answered 765830 yaqin's gravatar image
edited Oct 01 '13 at 05:49

Salam brother,

I’m in the process of reading your book, and will come back to you, inshallah.

As for this topic: As a former member of the military my initial response came easily - it is sometimes necessary to sacrifice one’s own in order to achieve a strategic objective. It happens, as you will know, that individuals in battle will sacrifice themselves for the sake of their comrades. ‘Greater love has no man than this….that he lay down his life for his friends.’

But these are just initial thoughts. A lot more reflection is needed!

(Oct 01 '13 at 12:57) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

@sadie this is the post I was talking about. Answer the tazahum.

(Oct 02 '13 at 03:00) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

You'd kill the brothers to get to the enemy. Salam

(Oct 02 '13 at 03:34) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

@stronghold you have brought the haqq, may Allah reward you paulus and the sister sadie, for they said the correct action to take and your answer is the foundation. May Allah bless all of you. The brothers captured will become martyers and whichever choice the father makes it will be best for the one sacraficed for they will become the same. Salaam

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:49) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

sadie, what does yaqin's "answer" have to do with the question? mother or baby? i guess some rules are only for some people. truely islamic of you.

(Oct 02 '13 at 11:24) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

When a woman dies in childbirth, she will die as a martyr. This is indicative of the virtue of her condition. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The woman who dies in pregnancy or childbirth is a martyr.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 3111; classed as saheeh by al-Nawawi in Sharh Muslim, 13/62. And he said: the one who dies in childbirth, i.e., she dies with something (the child) inside, not separated from her. as far as allowing the child to die I don't know of any proofs that would support it. Still researching. But at thos point I would say save the child. Especially if the mother wants the child to live. Salam

answered 1.6k313 sadie's gravatar image

hey, hey, asked and answered. yous got to save da baby. allah has decreed it.

now if i can ask, what if the mother is a scientist who has cured several diseases and is working on a cure for cancer?

i'll vote ya up one on that one sadie. not that i agree, because i like to disaggre with god, but you do have a "proof".

(Oct 02 '13 at 14:51) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

This is a lil hard, but it is easy also. For the thing is to that since the child will be a baby and the wife will be a adult, so should the man rescue the mother. Since he can after make with the mother another baby right after, he just have to wait 9months for the baby is here. But the baby have not gotten a soul or mind yet, it is just a baby still. Not before the child has become older and can react to sounds and talk has the baby a soul. For God does not give the child a soul before he knows the baby is old enough. The only thing you see is the child´s body, it just screams and are a little baby. But when the child have gotten a soul, then he starts to try to talk back and stand up on his own later. You could say that when the child stand up the first time on his own legs then he has gotten a soul... For then he is human, for humans stand on their own feet.

answered 4411141 UnknownUser's gravatar image

The baby gets a soul in approximately 120 days, so by the time of the birth, it already is human.

(Sep 30 '13 at 18:51) zfadil995 zfadil995's gravatar image

It does not I am sorry to say, you can not miscarry if the baby in the womb is over 120 days. So you think because Humans have made that law so say that the baby gets a soul after 120 days in the womb?

(Sep 30 '13 at 19:47) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Flanders forgive me but you speak with out any knowledge and that's harmful. Salam

(Sep 30 '13 at 20:47) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

So you say that? Or does everyone on earth say that also? Or does only Islam say that?

(Oct 01 '13 at 05:53) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Flanders who are you refering this question to??????

(Oct 01 '13 at 05:59) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Sadle. But u can try to answer you, try understand more than being ignorant

(Oct 01 '13 at 06:23) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Flanders I don't think she is being ignorant I think she is trying to grasp what you are saying. What eould you do in the situation I posted???

(Oct 01 '13 at 06:28) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

If you read your comments you have just determined that Islam is a false religion of God.

Here is something that will help, the second commandment:

2 - You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any pictures of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters under the earth to worship and grow! For I, the Lord your God am a ambitious god. I let the punishment for the fathers' sins upon the children in both the third and fourth paragraphs, when needed, but I also show kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

(Oct 01 '13 at 06:43) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Again Flanders who are you referring to? Is this your reason for being on a islamic site is to say islam is false? I take offense to this, I know of this verse you are speaking about I believe it is Exodus 20, the verse slips from my memory right now, but this doesnot apply to muslims for the things mentioned we don't do. Now I welcome any debate inshallah that is based on textual proof. I dont involve myself in debates of opinions. So if you will present your textual proof about your statement inshallah I will refute it and prove you wrong then show you from your book your errors inshallah.

(Oct 01 '13 at 06:56) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

U take offense to that I say? Are U sure, for U can not say things and say that or that when Islam approves lying my friend. Then Muslim lie and lie all the time, they are allowed to lie by Islam. So when you say that you take offense in this, then you are lying if U follow Islam and Muslim behavior. Then the whole religion Islam is false, for it is allowed to lie. Then Prophet Muhammad lied and lied to his Muslim´s for that is the way he is.. The lying Muslim just like all in Islam. They lie about praying 5 times a day and lie being a believer. They lie and lie, because they are in danger...

(Oct 01 '13 at 07:05) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Stop saying inshallah, mashallah and so on..

The 9th commandment:

"You shall not bear false witness against or against your neighbor."

(Oct 01 '13 at 07:08) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Muslim´s are the unbelievers!

(Oct 01 '13 at 07:10) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Again you speak jbberish, are you high on something? well anyway, lying in islam is forbidden, I'm not going to qoute the quran and hadith that refutes what you say,for that would be a waste of time. You qoute the commandments as if you are upon them but it is you who is lying for we both know that you believe the laws have been abolished when jesus the Greco Roman Fabrication was supposedly nailed to the cross. So why are you qouting something that you believe has been abolished? It is you who is bearing false witness,it is you that is here to cause mischief, that makes you the devil.

(Oct 01 '13 at 07:28) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

‘Say, "You disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship. Neither do you worship what I worship. I will never worship what you worship; nor will you worship what I worship. You have your religion, and I have mine”’. (Al-Kafirun).

Brother Yaqin: Perhaps is would be better not to waste anymore time on this person.

(Oct 01 '13 at 07:39) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Yaqin: So lying is forbidden in Islam? Then why is it allowed to lie when you are in danger? That makes sense, you are lying now because you are in danger. Islam is in danger. That makes everybody lying for they are in danger. Don´t you come with more lies now. Muslim´s have been hustling for a long time now, time to bring the truth.

(Oct 01 '13 at 07:49) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Al hamdulilahee brother I just told him such on the other question. Thanks for the reminder beloved brother for reminding profits the believers. On another note what is your take on the tazahum topic I posted what would you do in this situation? How is hellenism coming along have you had a chance to read any of it as of yet? Agsin brother thanks for the haqq may Allah reward you. Salaam

(Oct 01 '13 at 07:51) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Paulus113 and Yaqin: Whatever you say to prove your point is pointless, because you are allowed to lie when in danger. The religion Islam is in danger now! So Muslim´s lie.

(Oct 01 '13 at 07:59) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Islam is fine it is your corrupted mind that is in danger stop using those drugs brother I'm going to pray for you. salaam

(Oct 01 '13 at 08:04) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Are you lying now?

(Oct 01 '13 at 08:07) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Flanders I now give you verbal warning to stop harassing the members on this site. As a moderator I can no longer allow this to continue. You either do things according to FAQ or you will be suspended. May you chose correctly. Salam

(Oct 02 '13 at 03:32) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

This proves my point, for you get offended by me asking a regular question. That makes me see that Muslim´s are easily offended. OK you say you have the FAQ, but we have also the freedom of expressing my self. And you know what you have to point out what you mean is for the verbal warning. I am only talking or writing some words now. If I can´t say another one is lying when in Islam it is allowed to lie then you tell me what is right to say? Shall I ask are you telling the truth so they can say they are and will be lying for in Islam it is allowed to lie when in danger? I want the truth

(Oct 02 '13 at 03:50) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Flanders this has to do with your actions. Do you see how you are speaking to the members here?. Yaqin and Paul and many others are respected members and very good people. They only give the truth. If you don't agree then that is A Okay. But do not harass . Treat people with respect. That is all im asking. Also answer the question posted or really there is not a good reason to be commenting here. The FAQ is on the top right on the page , you should read it.salam

(Oct 02 '13 at 04:02) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

Sadle read this comments written to me:

  • that makes you the devil.
  • you speak jbberish, are you high on something?
  • it is your corrupted mind that is in danger stop using those drugs

Here I am said to be the devil, that I talk jibberish and are high on something. Also that I have a corrupted mind that is in danger stop using those drugs.

OK so I am the devil when I again and again tell the truth that Allah is not God, that the Islam is based on lies? Calling somebody the devil makes them the devil, for only the devil would do that. So I am gonna let they who worship the Devil do that...

(Oct 02 '13 at 05:08) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

The only thing I say is that Muslim´s worship a graven image, if not then show me why not. I want to see where in the Qur´an it states that Allah is God and should be prayed to? Ohh it doesn´t matter if you illahi ballahi wallahi Rahalli in someone´s name. Everything you say to me takes me closer to the truth. That Islam is a graven image, and it states by Moses or Musa as Muslim´s say that you shall not make a graven image to worship and bow down to. And that is what Muslim´s do, they go around a rock and bow down to Allah who Muslim´s say is not a God..

(Oct 02 '13 at 05:15) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Totally agreed. Intelligent, comments and questions are welcome but when these deteriorate to the lowest common denominator...it is nothing but the work of shaitan.

(Oct 02 '13 at 07:32) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image
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Asked: Sep 30 '13 at 16:42

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Last updated: Oct 02 '13 at 14:51

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