The Qur´an Al-Baqarah 2:74

Arabic:

ثُمَّ قَسَتْ قُلُوبُكُم مِّن بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ فَهِيَ كَالْحِجَارَةِ أَوْ أَشَدُّ قَسْوَةً وَإِنَّ مِنَ الْحِجَارَةِ لَمَا يَتَفَجَّرُ مِنْهُ الأَنْهَارُ وَإِنَّ مِنْهَا لَمَا يَشَّقَّقُ فَيَخْرُجُ مِنْهُ الْمَاء وَإِنَّ مِنْهَا لَمَا يَهْبِطُ مِنْ خَشْيَةِ اللّهِ وَمَا اللّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ

Translated:

Then hardened hearts then They كالحجارة or harsher though of stones to explode him rivers though her ​​what يشقق Vijrj him water though them to fall from the fear of God and Allah is unaware of what you do.

So my point:

What does it say? I am just trying to inform rather than ignore. You can get my translation page I used here:

http://translate.google.com/

So now you can do it yourself if you want to confirm something. I think Google translate is a very good source to see the truth, rather than what other Muslim´s modify for Islam to get the religion in good light. Yes you know Muslim´s lie for they are allowed to lie, then how will they lie their way out of this one. Yes you could say Allah is a graven image first of all, no you don´t do bad then. It is just that The Father is Lord thy God and the only one... Stop worship a graven image.

Ned Flanders

asked 4411142 UnknownUser's gravatar image

graven image

| Definition | Thesaurus | TranslationsAlso found in: Legal, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia

graven image n. An idol or fetish carved in wood or stone.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


graven image n (Christian Religious Writings / Bible) Chiefly Bible a carved image used as an idol

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged© HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003


grav′en im′age n. an idol carved from stone or wood.

Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.

Thesaurus Legend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms

Noun

1.

graven image - a material effigy that is worshipped; "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"; "money was his god" idol, god

effigy, simulacrum, image - a representation of a person (especially in the form of sculpture); "the coin bears an effigy of Lincoln"; "the emperor's tomb had his image carved in stone"

golden calf - (Old Testament) an idol made by Aaron for the Israelites to worship; destroyed by Moses; it is now used to refer to anything worshipped undeservedly

joss - a Chinese god worshipped in the form of an idol

Juggernaut - a crude idol of Krishna

(Oct 03 '13 at 00:19) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

Flanders so you can Insha Allah understand the term graven image.

(Oct 03 '13 at 00:21) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

Flanders, you are lacking in basic knowledge regarding translating. The language structure of one particular language (and in this case it happens to be Arabic text) cannot be translated into another language (here being English) without looking at style, structure, words and grammar. If you do not pay attention to these, then you risk compromising the original text and the message and the intended translation become inaccurate.

Translation is the transfer of meaning from one language to another. It is not the transfer of words from language to language.

You must translate the meaning of what is being said, rather than do it word-for-word. This is because languages are not just different words. Different languages also have different grammar, different word orders, sometimes even words for which other languages do not have any equivalents.

Your attempt failed because you cannot use a google translator in this manner. If one could, then why would we need translators in legal and business matters all over the world? The fact is translation is a special skill and requires some expertise.

As for the surah Al-Baqarah 2:74, here are two versions of the translation, both of which are valid.

Yusuf Ali:

Thenceforth were your hearts hardened: They became like a rock and even worse in hardness. For among rocks there are some from which rivers gush forth; others there are which when split asunder send forth water; and others which sink for fear of God. And God is not unmindful of what ye do.

Zohurul Hoque:

Then even after that your hearts hardened, so that they became like rocks,- rather worse in hardness. And surely there are rocks out of which gush forth streams, and truly there are others which when split up, water then comes out there from; and indeed there are others which fall down for fear of Allah. And Allah is not unaware as to what you do.

Not all translations match the Arabic Quran in rhythm of text, depth of meaning, syntax of sentences, word usage and adherence to the divine words. You need to understand this. Surah 2:74 needs to be read with the accompanying verses, at least 2:72, 2:73 and 2:75 and relates so that a full understanding is gained.

Summary – It begins (verses 1-29) by classifying men into three broad categories, depending on how they receive God’s message.

This leads to the story of the creation of man, the high destiny intended for him, his fall, and the hope held out to him (2:30-39). This applies to all mankind.

Israel’s story is then told according to their own traditions – what privileges they received and how they abused them (2:40-86), thus illustrating again as a parable the general story of man.

As for your words of insult to anyone who believes in one God, you are held accountable. Regardless of what you say, God is ONE and WILL always stay ONE.

Your second insult whereby you refer to Muslims as liars is your burden but you may not feel it much as this very verse 74 in Surah Al Baqara very aptly describes and applies to the likes of you.

Here is another translation for you:

T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:

Then, after that, your hearts were hardened and became as stones or even worse in hardness. And indeed, there are stones out of which rivers gush forth, and indeed, there are of them (stones) which split asunder so that water flows from them, and indeed, there are of them (stones) which fall down for fear of Allâh. And Allâh is not unaware of what you do.

Yes, the Divine Quran is relevant for the duration of time. You are a mischief maker.

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answered 5205 stronghold's gravatar image
edited Oct 02 '13 at 08:53

Crucify the mischief maker, Allah commands it you say. Ok who was crucified? Ohh now you say Jesus Christ was not crucified. Ok but if you read/translate this word in Arabic:

السَّيِّد، يسوع المَسيح

If you can answer this I would be glad, for it was a English word I used first.

(Oct 02 '13 at 15:13) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

i say nothing of the sort. i believe he was crucified. i don't believe he rose from the dead though. he was a political leader trying to get the jews out from under the romans. he was no prophet or god, because there are no prophets or gods.

sorry dude i would love to take part in your "who is the true god" debate. but i have no dog in that fight, and i find you very difficult to follow. nor can i translate anything, i barely speak good american.

what is your native tongue?

mike

(Oct 02 '13 at 15:35) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Hey Mike. I will show you a internet page where they translate English to Arabic, if you want so can you take a look on that first. For so I took that Arabic I got to another page with translation back to English and guess what??

(Oct 02 '13 at 15:41) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Ah....the Eternal Moonshine of the Flanders' Mind.

Hi Mike, how's tricks?

(Oct 02 '13 at 15:43) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Ignorance can be a gift for some, it is just that they need to open up their mind first to understand more...

(Oct 02 '13 at 15:49) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

i know google translate. thanks though. plus i think arabic has multiple dialects. plus it doesn't matter to me. i still call native americans, indians and the letters we use arabic numbers. what a word once meant or whether pagans or romans or greeks used it doens't really matter. to me the word god is universially accepted at to mean a supreme being. the creator, whatever, it's all mythology to me. might as well pray to zeus as far as i'm concerned. if i'm ignoring your "truth", so be it, call me ignorant. nothing new there.

(Oct 02 '13 at 16:29) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

paul, you crossing abby road? you got your shoes on i hope. alls good in tampabay. well except for da bucs. rays have advanced to the wildcard tonight. speaking of were words came from, where did how's tricks come from.

oh no, don't go to the answerer, given your name question. satan got the better of my tongue there. it was for answerer's eyes only. PM sadie and tell her she wants to avoid it as well. also speaking of PM, did you PM her and tell her, her youtube link didn't work?

(Oct 02 '13 at 16:34) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Ok multiple dialects is maybe something, but this is Islamic page and they want well the truth. So if not they want lies and maybe that is why in Islam it is allowed to lie is it not? For a lie can give you comfort and trust in Allah and that is what a Muslim want.Maybe that is why Allah is the best deceiver or plan maker, for he uses lies to give others a belief that he exists. This not right?

(Oct 02 '13 at 16:38) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

taqqiyah, however you spell that. if you look back on the god vs allah question yaqin mentions it to uzbek? i think 3:28 mentions it in the koran. anyway i think the concept is that if you life is threatened or you will be persecuted you can deny your religion. i guess you would not be as good of a muslim as the egyptian slave who watched her children boiled alive. but some (mostly shia, so maybe it is not denying your a muslim but a shia, i don't know) say it is allowed. it would be like if you were a christain in communist russia or china back in the day. are you a big robert spencer fan?

(Oct 02 '13 at 17:13) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

hhmm.. Are you trying to find something?

(Oct 02 '13 at 17:19) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

lol. so is that a yes? he seems to harp on this lying thing alot.

On the mountains of truth you can never climb in vain: either you will reach a point higher up today, or you will be training your powers so that you will be able to climb higher tomorrow.

Friedrich Nietzsche

(Oct 02 '13 at 17:27) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

hmm.. Never heard about him.

(Oct 02 '13 at 17:32) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

what country are you in? must not be the west. nietzshe, how could you not hear of nietzshe. of course he also said, "why do i feel i need a shower, after shaking a religious man's hand". that's how i'm starting to feel.

(Oct 02 '13 at 17:37) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

I was talking about Robert Spencer. Freddyboy I have heard about him, he runs around with big claws and shows up in your dream. Have never met him, never talked to him, but by all the Jinns Muslim believe in and all the Demons also he must be somewhere...

(Oct 02 '13 at 17:43) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image
showing 5 of 14 show all

I'm not trying to be ignorant but where in that English translation does it say "two" gods? The sentence, "to fall from the fear of God (so far that means " one" god) and Allah (" and that also means "one") is unaware of what you do." Allah, is the god, so where in the world does it say "two" gods? Also, I don't think Google Translate is a "good" source of translating, as once it translated for me a paragraph of English into Arabic and my mum who was once a teacher of Arabic couldn't properly understand the Arabic translation. The English translation you have above is pretty decent but doesn't point out that there is two gods.

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answered 110311 omar's gravatar image

I also don't have that much knowledge but it just needs a bit of thinking to see in the Google Translation whether there is two gods in that sentence or not. So obviously in that translation there is one only god, Allah, being told in that translation.

(Oct 02 '13 at 07:24) omar omar's gravatar image

Okey if God is one God, then why does Allah have to be a god? Why can´t Allah be Allah, and when that´s that then there is God and there is Allah. And what does it say in

Al-Baqarah 2:74

them to fall from the fear of God(that´s one) and Allah(who is this) is unaware of what u do.

So everybody should fall from fear of God, that´s like saying don´t fear God. And Allah is unaware of what u do, that´s like saying he knows nothing.

So Muslims bow down to Allah for he knows nothing, ok I see.. Muslim´s talk shit about Allah for Allah is the unbeliever direction.

I think Google good translation

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:05) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

This is just a real good suggestion. If Muslim´s want to have the best, then they should let some who is neutral in religion to translate the text. Not a Muslim at least, for a Muslim will always correct the faults or the hidden message´s. A person that has nothing to do with the religion will do it properly and true, he will not hide what is said so the religion can continue as a lie. He will not hide that which is not good, he will do a proper job as a police officer. Not one can enhance a lie at least if he is a Muslim. Can any understand that? T.F

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:21) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Flanders here you go again talking jibberish, you are proving me right, you have the characteristic of the devil. This topic I explained to you yesterday. I told you you are at a disadvantage for you don not know the language of the scriptures, whether quran or your book. Lets keep it simple no where in the arabia is the word god, nowhere, I used the example of LA ILLAHA ILLALAH, most say no god but Allah. The correct way. No Allah but Allah.You lack basic understanding. You comment about Allah not being unaware proves this point.

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:25) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

I think that your last post deserves your being banned from this site.There is no place for your language and disrespect here.I actually began to make an effort to explain a few of the things which you referred to but your second last sentence is height of rudeness and blasphemy.

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:32) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

@stronghold beloved brother I'm going to post a debate that I want you to read Is Allah God the information in the debate will further the ilm Allah azza wal jall has blessed you with. Salaam

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:33) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Flanders:

Here are your words:

If Muslim´s want to have the best, then they should let some who is neutral in religion to translate the text. Not a Muslim at least, for a Muslim will always correct the faults or the hidden message´s. A person that has nothing to do with the religion will do it properly and true, he will not hide what is said so the religion can continue as a lie. He will not hide that which is not good, he will do a proper job as a police officer. Not one can enhance a lie at least if he is a Muslim.

Read my answer below, with reference to Prof A J Arberry.

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:39) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Flanders:

You can purchase Arberry's translation for yourself.

'The Koran'

Published by the Oxford University Press.

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:42) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

I will ask again who is the MOST HIGH?

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:44) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Allah (The One). The MOST HIGH and ONLY Lord of Adam, of Noah, of Moses, of Abraham, of David, of Solomon, of Jesus, of Mohammed, of you, of me and of everyone else.

I have nothing else to say!

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:47) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

So you say that, but maybe you need some help. Who is MOST HIGH of Allah or the Father?

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:55) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image
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Flanders:

Ok. Let’s go back to our two Arabic speaking people: one a Muslim, one a Christian.

They both use the word ‘Allah’ when referring to the One Lord. For the Muslim (as for the Jew and the Unitarian Christian) this One Lord is indeed One (Unity and not trinity).

For the majority of Christians, however, the One Lord is trinity (father, son and holy spirit). Even here, none is superior to the other - they are ‘co-equal’; ‘co-eternal’. Even within Christian theology it makes no sense to ask: which is the higher, the father or the son, or maybe the holy spirit? They are of equal rank.

For the Jew and the Muslim it also makes no sense to ask (as you do) which is the higher: Allah (or Yahweh) or the father. For the Jew and the Muslim there is no ‘father’ in the sense that you mean. There is no trinity; there is only Unity.

For both Jew and Muslim the trinity is an invention.

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answered 4411142 UnknownUser's gravatar image

Great answer Paulus. Salaam

(Oct 02 '13 at 12:10) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Well One Lord is the best right? Yeah but who is the Lord?

(Oct 02 '13 at 12:15) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Time to call a halt to this game!

(Oct 02 '13 at 12:23) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

what, it was just getting fun. the debate between to inventions. like a dog chasing it's tail. but paul, i always wonder why they CAPITALIZE Us and We in the koran? in american english if you capitalize a pronoun it means you are speaking of god. Him or He. so it seems to me that muhammad is putting hiimself on par with god? did We not do this or that? was it not Us who did this or that? strange don't you think?

(Oct 02 '13 at 12:38) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

salam. Allah has said who ever he has guided no one can mislead and hu ever has gone astray no one can guid. And the prophet (SAW) said Allah is please with one who avoids arguement even when he is right. So dear brothers i c no point in u waistin ur tym with a man who doesnt even understand what xactly he is aguing about, my advice, let him b. And as for u d disbeleiving fellow, whatch what u say say about Allah ur creator for u cant stand his anger, i'l advice u to just be Quiet about what u knw nothing about and follow ur christianity no body is forcing u to b a muslim so whats ur problem.

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answered 4411142 UnknownUser's gravatar image

السَّيِّد، يسوع المَسيح

(Oct 02 '13 at 16:15) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

Salam @umm hadi,

That's the best piece of advice given tonight. Thank you so much for that very timely reminder.

(Oct 02 '13 at 16:17) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

What did I say then?

(Oct 02 '13 at 16:18) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

@Flanders:

Here is another translation of the verse you have quoted:

ثُمَّ قَسَتْ قُلُوبُكُم مِّن بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ فَهِيَ كَالْحِجَارَةِ أَوْ أَشَدُّ قَسْوَةً وَإِنَّ مِنَ الْحِجَارَةِ لَمَا يَتَفَجَّرُ مِنْهُ الأَنْهَارُ وَإِنَّ مِنْهَا لَمَا يَشَّقَّقُ فَيَخْرُجُ مِنْهُ الْمَاء وَإِنَّ مِنْهَا لَمَا يَهْبِطُ مِنْ خَشْيَةِ اللّهِ وَمَا اللّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ

‘Even after that, your hearts become as hard as rocks, or even harder, for there are rocks from which streams spring out, and some from which water comes when they split open, and others which fall down in awe of Allah: He is not unaware of what you do.’ (Al-Baqara: 74).

One more; this time by Arthur J Arberry - appointed Professor of Arabic at London University in 1946. Arberry was not a Muslim:

‘Then your hearts become hardened thereafter and are like stones, or even yet harder; for there are stones from which rivers come gushing, and others split, so that water issues from them, and others crash down in the fear of God. And God is not heedless of the things you do.’

All translation is a ‘betrayal’ to some degree. Nevertheless the translator has the power to choose which element of the source text to ‘betray,’ and which to honour faithfully: to decide whether to use the literal words, or to express the deeper meaning by some other means.

By way of example, take the following:

‘But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven’. (Matthew 19:14) - King James Bible version.

Taken literally, this translation is saying that children have to experience pain before they can be allowed to approach Jesus. I was brought up a Christian, and took part in many a debate with agnostics and atheists. I’ve lost count of the number of times that people – taking the words ‘suffer little children’ literally – have said to me that Jesus condoned child abuse!

However, the true spirit of this statement is that children should be allowed freely to approach him, and should not be hindered. By ‘betraying’ the literal word ‘suffer’ one arrives at the true meaning of this text:

‘But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”’ – English standard version.

It is perfectly possible to be faithful to the meaning and spirit of a text, provided one knows when to ‘betray’ the literal wording, and when to leave it alone; essentially, the role of the translator is to exercise this judgement. Translation systems, such as Google, cannot exercise this judgement!

Take note;

Arbery is using the word ‘God’ because he is writing to an English speaking audience, for whom the word has meaning.

There is no equivalent word for ‘God’ in Arabic, and so the Qur’an in its original classical Arabic does not contain that word. Not at all.

An Arabic speaking Muslim uses the word ‘Allah’ to express the One Lord. An Arabic speaking Christian also uses the word ‘Allah’ to express the One Lord.

When an Arabic speaking Christian reads the Qur’an in his native tongue he knows perfectly well that the Lord who is speaking to him (Allah) is the very Lord of Adam, of Noah, of Moses, of Abraham, of David, of Solomon, of Jesus, of Mohammed, of you, of me and of everyone else. Amen!

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answered 4411142 UnknownUser's gravatar image
edited Oct 02 '13 at 10:33

You know who is the most High?

(Oct 02 '13 at 10:40) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

The question is do you?

(Oct 02 '13 at 11:49) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

I know but it seems like you don´t...

(Oct 02 '13 at 12:12) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

you assumed that google translation is a good source and my question is; if so, then why they could not translate this word; كَالْحِجَارَةِ and they kept it an Arabic as per your post? while the same word was repeated in the same verse الْحِجَارَةِ and was correctly translated =stones. why??

there is one letter difference between the two words and google could not understand that difference!! and just translated the second word only!! that letter means (=as) or (like).

so the word that google could not understand/translate is (=as the stones). this is a proof for you that google is a poor/weak translator.

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answered 377116 inclined2truth's gravatar image

Is it allowed to lie in Islam?

(Oct 02 '13 at 14:01) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

No! it is not allowed.

(Oct 02 '13 at 14:12) inclined2truth inclined2truth's gravatar image

I got the impression that it is allowed in Islam to lie if you are in danger. Is that right?

(Oct 02 '13 at 14:15) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image

"Then your hearts became hardened after that, being like stones or even harder. For indeed, there are stones from which rivers burst forth, and there are some of them that split open and water comes out, and there are some of them that fall down for fear of Allah . And Allah is not unaware of what you do."

This is the official translation from the verse you have brought up. I found this translation from the website, quran.com/2 and as you can tell, this is the official website for the Quran. In the translation, they say "Allah is NOT unaware of what you do". I don't know where you brought up your translations but THIS is the OFFICIAL translation for the verse.

So now, Every Muslim must be thrilled and excited right? As they have chose the right path in life, the Quran has covered everything. Instead of Muslims running around doing sins after sins, they run from mosque to mosque praying to Allah.

To wrap this up, this is the official translation for the verse, if you don't believe, just go on the official website I have stated above and you'll see the translation.

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answered 110311 omar's gravatar image
-2

Here is another translation of the verse I pointed out.

Lets see:

"Then measure your hearts from then are stones or More severe and that the stones for what explodes. It comes out of the water and to the land of The fear of God and God unaware of what you do."

-So your hearts are of stone or even worse it says here and the stones will explode. Out of it water comes and it will come to the land of the fear of God and God is unaware of what you do.

So some don´t have any feelings for their heart is of stone or even worse, and the stones will explode. Out comes life and it will enter the land of the fear of God and God is unaware of what you do.

So really it is said here that you are welcome to cause pain, murder and plage to all others for God is unaware of what you do.

You know I like this! Don´t you? We can go around and kill others without caring and God will not care about it. I understand why Muslim´s rape, steal, lie and commit adultery around the world it is because they are allowed to do it. How great is it to be a Muslim I could think ! ! !

Every Muslim must be thrilled and excited every time they see a opportunity to ravish others... How great is it to be a Muslim? Just run around and do sin after sin...

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answered 4411142 UnknownUser's gravatar image
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Asked: Oct 02 '13 at 06:42

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Last updated: Oct 03 '13 at 04:50

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