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i've heard muslims say, and i think it is in the koran. allah guide whom he chooses and those he does not guide shall go astray. why not guide everyone equally? on 20% of the world is muslim. and appearently many muslims aren't being guided. also i've been told that the reason muslims pray 5 times a day is to maintain that guidance. yet terrorist pray?

atheist mike

asked (suspended) abul%20rauf's gravatar image
closed Oct 25 '13 at 01:49 sadie ♦ 1.6k315 sadie's gravatar image

Mike Allah only lets those who forsake the path go astray. Like you who refuses to believe although he sees the truth. Allah won't guide you until you turn to him and put your trust in him subhana Allah.

answered 1.6k315 sadie's gravatar image

Mike, in another question you say life is about 'live and then die'..Don't you think this makes life look meaningless and purposeless? That's an empty view on existance. Look at this world and what goes on, as beautiful as it is, there's so much unfairness and horror that happens and much of it goes unaddressed and unresolved. Don't you think life has a higher purpose, don't you think that every single person deserves to be judged fairly? Who can be that Judge? If everything around us has a purpose, then don't we humans have it too? We're not just running around aimlessly, is that your view?

(Oct 20 '13 at 05:04) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

yes, you live and then you die. why would that make live meaningless, to the contratry it makes live precious. not to be thrown away for a mythical afterlife. you speak of unfairness, unaddresses and unresolved, true but it is often your very belief in the afterlife that causes these things to by unaddressed and unresolved. i posted a story of a 14 year-old bangladeshi girl being lashed to death for commiting zina. you know what a muslim told me, don't worry mike if she was innocent she will go to heaven. appearently no need to change anything, right. there was a story our of africa a year ago

(Oct 22 '13 at 18:17) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

people had gathered on muhammad's birthday i think to hear some famous iman speak. and i think they think he is some sort of faith healer. anyway, the stadium is overcrowded and a railing or something collapses and people are killed. the report at the hospital notes that the people don't seem to upset with the organizers, they just say it was the will of allah that they died that day. no need for better construction codes or enforcement of occupancy limits. if people die because you overcrowd a staium, it's the will of allah. "higher purpose" no, my purpose is to survive and enjoy the time

(Oct 22 '13 at 18:23) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

that gives me. yes we should all want to be judged fairly. we should all try to help create a society that is capable of that. "If everything around us has a purpose" what is the purpose of arsenic in ground water? an earthquake? a tornado?

"We're not just running around aimlessly, is that your view?" you might be. i don't know. i have aim in what i do.

(Oct 22 '13 at 18:30) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

No I don't have that view at all. I asked you this question because this is what your views insinuate. How about a young child who lives for a brief period of time and succumbs to the illness which takes life away? So how is a small number of years and in suffering a great purpose? There is nothing else for this child? And yet, some child molester or name any other criminal, manages a good 80 years of life, and in some cases in quite an affluent lifestyle? So you think this can all happen and there is no judgement?

(Oct 24 '13 at 09:06) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

To comment on your ideology of a pristine judicial system that judges should know that where man judges, there will always be loopholes and misjudgements. Islam is the closest one can ever get to that ideology. That is because Islam follows the word of Allah. True Islam does. In reference to the stadium incident, you know all people, whoever they are should value life. For life is given by The Creator, Allah SWT and yes, common sense, precautions should be taken to avoid such accidents and if they do happen, people should not be indifferent. People need to take responsibility.

(Oct 24 '13 at 09:20) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

It's this kind of thoughtless response from people which devalues life. Yes we should strive to do our best in all areas and see ourselves as accountable when this is obviously the case. Ok we can't fight forces of nature but yes, we can build better stadiums, enforce regulations on usage etc. Man is definately accountable for far more than he thinks.

(Oct 24 '13 at 09:28) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

yes that can all happen with no judgement. it's comforting to think that a small child who has known nothing but pain and misery in this world will be raised up to another, one filled with bliss and happiness. that s/he will be made perfect. that one who commits henoius act in the world will be punished for an eternity. that doesn't make it so. there is no karma. stalin, pol pot, mao all lived long lives.

of course nothing will ever be perfect. vince lombadri said: "everyday we strive for perfection. and although we know we will never achive it, we may find excellence along the way."

(Oct 24 '13 at 10:27) mikejm mikejm's gravatar image

"Islam is the closest one can ever get to that ideology. That is because Islam follows the word of Allah. True Islam does." i disagree, secular law allows for growth and flexibility as technology and science advance. islam is most often stuck in the 7th century, or worst many muslims want to turn the clock back onn any advancements that have been made and return to the 7th century. did muhammad say: "let them make a better surah"? i think the 1954 Un declaration of human rights is a better surah then anyone i've read in the koran.

(Oct 24 '13 at 10:32) mikejm mikejm's gravatar image

Exactly Mike! I was taught to stand on my own 2 feet, & never to depend on anyone but myself. My husband married a grown woman, not a child. But to each his own I guess. You should have been here when Utah descended upon my doorstep...we could have had some fun. :)

(Oct 24 '13 at 20:20) puppas puppas's gravatar image

Bibi, I'm here to learn about Islam in action, so to speak. In college I studied world religions & always had friends from various faiths (or no faith); it just fascinates me. And Mike is absolutely correct, there is no way I could be Muslim with all my ink. :) My left arm alone, with a Star of David, the Virgin Mary & child, rosary beads, & Allah in Arabic is a hint that I skip to the beat of a different drummer. :)

(Oct 24 '13 at 20:21) puppas puppas's gravatar image
showing 5 of 11 show all

Mike,,, this question I feel is to do with the big picture, the overall plan and scheme of life , destiny. It is Allahs will, and plan that this is the way things are. We would not learn anything if life was so simple and we were all the same. It is not just Muslims that will be given a place in Jannah. Christians, Jews and Sabians, will have there place also. But they will if they are practicing in a manner that believes Allah is One, and associate no partners.So this 20% figure is now much higher. There are many factors in lifes events that make for people to turn and find Allah, it can be personal traumas to worldwide fammine. Life itself is a test to mankind, to think and ponder over. Much like you are doing. It can divide us or unite us. This is the choice we have.

So Allah makes it that some are guided and others are left astray. There are also many questions that can not be answered., and too many questioned asked, that need not to be asked. It is about Faith. For when a person tries to question every aspect, then this is a person whom is lead astray. I suggest for you Mike, with your knowledge, go to a masjid and sit with the Muslims and learn that way. The wrong type of knowledge is a form of leading a person astray.

For I feel too that Shatan is amongst us on this site, and making ridicule and light of many peoples personal plights.

answered 3488 abyadgirl's gravatar image
edited Oct 20 '13 at 05:52

ok, so you are at 50-55%. that's if all muslims, jews and christians go to heaven. to the muslims in the mall in kenya get to go to heaven because they prayed to allah in between shooting people? because as said earlier on this site, disbelief is the only unforgivable sin.

yeah, i've been to mosques. i've been thrown out of one already. yeah too many questions. but at least i never asked what color cow, male or female. lol.

oh lord the free will debate. qadr.

perhaps it would be better translated as allah guides those whom are accepting of guidance. not whom he wills.

(Oct 22 '13 at 18:45) abul rauf abul%20rauf's gravatar image

Wait a were thrown out of a mosque?! slides down wall You did better than me, which I'm sure I'd be run out of the mosque and parking lot once they got a load of my tattoos. But I'm confused, because questions have always been welcomed in places of worship in my experience with every priest, minister, & rabbi I've ever encountered. Thought that WAS the place for questions, especially difficult ones. And yes, I've even showed up at their homes demanding answers and was welcomed in....and fed. Gotta love the south. :)

(Oct 22 '13 at 22:51) puppas puppas's gravatar image

yeah, that guy had already had enough with my emails. when i showed up koran in tow, he was like, well you shouldn't be in here while we pray. and asked me to leave the property. but i have been in two other mosques since then. but those were for cair events. you'll like this. the one guy told me privately that if we got all of the women out of the work force, there would be plenty of jobs for all the men.

go gators

(Oct 23 '13 at 12:50) mikejm mikejm's gravatar image

You have got to be kidding me! Mike, how you kept a straight face I just do not know. That's like the time some mormon missionaries tried their best to convert me and tell me I was a second class citizen in God's eyes at the same time.

(Oct 24 '13 at 14:41) puppas puppas's gravatar image

Sister or brother mik isn't a religion person plz don't waste ur time with him,must node at him and annoy him

(Oct 24 '13 at 14:42) Bibi Amina ♦ Bibi%20Amina's gravatar image

Thank you for your concern, but I myself am not a muslim either. I'm also aware he is an atheist, which I have no problem with. :)

(Oct 24 '13 at 15:12) puppas puppas's gravatar image

Puppas if you not a Muslim but then why r u in islam website :) r u a sister or brother?

(Oct 24 '13 at 15:50) Bibi Amina ♦ Bibi%20Amina's gravatar image

i guess he thought i looked like i needed a job. i was dressed business casual. and that was after i had stood up in the event and said you are keeping women in a perpetual state of childhood with this, men are the maintainer and protector philosophy. i always like when the joe's come knocking. you hear the craziest things.

bibi, she knows i'm an atheist. and she actual understands the concept. but it's sweet of you to try to look out for her. also, i'm pretty sure she's not a muslim, too much ink. she has marked herself as the pagans did. straight to hell for her.

(Oct 24 '13 at 18:33) mikejm mikejm's gravatar image
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Here is an example of a very misunderstood verse in the Quran...Surah 14:4

And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise.

People wrongly believe that Allah misguides people and therefore when the people are misguided then they don't have free will and that it is actually Allah's fault for them being misguided and that Allah would be unjust for punishing them. 

But, the Quran has to be read in context so that we can better understand what this verse is saying.

Surah 18:29 says:

(It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!

Here we clearly see that people have a FREE WILL to believe or disbelieve in God. 

Surah 29:69 says:

for those who strive in Us, We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good.

AllahSWT is clearly telling us that we need to struggle hard in order to find the path to Him. Allah will only guide those who actually struggle to be guided.

If Allah SWT has already predetermined who would go to hell and heaven without giving us free will then it would be useless for Allah to tell us to strive to be good. So He guides those who strive and put an effort to want to be guided. 

So one has to want to be guided, choose to be guided, use his will to be guided. You see, it is all fair, there no tricks involved. May Allah SWT guide us until the end of time. Ameen.

answered 5287 stronghold's gravatar image

this free will, is a matter of great debate, where as we are also subject to predestined lives. The guidance I feel is what we can ask for, to be good is to continue to better ourselves. For what Allah says as to leading astray, ,is it not about those destined to be lead astray, no matter what they do. If they strive for bad, and continue in bad, then surely they are astray.??

(Oct 20 '13 at 09:28) abyadgirl abyadgirl's gravatar image

Sister, everyone's course is refered to as their destiny. It is their destiny because Allah SWT KNOWS in advance what every one of us will CHOOSE. If you disagree with this, then how can you justify your belief that He is the Most Just, the Most Fair. As Allah SWT already knows what each one of us will choose and what direction we are heading He knows whom to guide and whom to allow to go astray. Otherwise none of this free will will make sense. Salaam

(Oct 20 '13 at 09:38) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

I beleive in Allah ,The Just and The Fair, in all treatment. And I too feel that destiny is just, and free will, is just, as I am a revert, this is most poignant for me. As I know I did not choose, but was chosen to be Muslim, as i never looked for Islam, it came to me right out of nowhere. I was not even a practicing Christian at the time. So I have the thoughts that in this sense free will is a sort of illusion. I am most grateful and honored to be chosen to to return back to Allah.

(Oct 20 '13 at 09:50) abyadgirl abyadgirl's gravatar image

Good point. It chose you. But this is because Allah SWT knew that your heart is open. He knew that if He lead you to the point of awareness of Islam, you would go with it. Sister, I was born a Muslim but lost what was gifted to me through no fault of my own. And my story is of an amazing path to rediscovery. Allah SWT knew my heart was open too. I am only mentioning a small part of my amazing story that unfolded and the circumstances as they happened are beyond imagination but Allah Swt knows what He is doing. Where He knows there' s an open sincer heart, He will guide. He the Most Gracious.

(Oct 20 '13 at 10:07) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

SubhannaAllah, May Allah continue to guides us both, and keep us steadfast, for I know patience and perseverance is utmost in all our lives. Our destinys may be written, thats for sure, but its the events that occur in this personal destiny that makes for us being what we are, and there is no denying, or altering, or adding or subtracting from what we all endure, and ultimately become.

(Oct 20 '13 at 10:15) abyadgirl abyadgirl's gravatar image

Alhamdilollah for everything. The good and the bad, for if it wasn't for both, I don't know how things wold have worked out. When Allah SWT brings us down to our knees and we have no one else to turn to and nowher else to go, then we we pray in humility and humbleness and He hears us. I cannot understand why some underestimate the power of Allah SWT, it makes no sense to me. No one has been able to help me like He. And it is like that for each of us who turn to Him. What many don't know is that they also need to have patience. Sometimes things take time. May Allah SWT bless your path. Ameen

(Oct 20 '13 at 14:55) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image
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abul rauf:

This is about who is more clever then more stupid. For who can say that this the right way to live when there are so many who says they also know the right way and all of them contradict eachother?

Allah will guide who will and those that wont he will just send them to hell it is said in Islam, this means that Allah is not merciful. So the Qur´an contradict itself and Muslim´s dont understand it... Yeah this is about ignorance probably, for it looks like Allah is giving all he has on ignorance into believing in him. This is about who is let astray and who is let into the light. For who can say they are in the light when they believe Allah is merciful and he lets people be astray... Can you abul rauf see this? Probably this will be ignored by Muslim´s again...

answered 0544149 UnknownUser's gravatar image
edited Oct 22 '13 at 20:00

Flanders, Allah SWT wills to guide those who CHOOSE to be guided, those who WANT to be guided. He does not shut the door in one's face when one chooses to be guided. You think this is a misunderstood concept amongst Muslims? I hate to disappoint you, but we ARE clear on this concept. Let me illustrate to you further: A chooses to be guided and asks for guidance. A sincerely wants to be guided, strives to be guided, shows in all actions that he/she wants to be guided. Thus, Allah WILLS to guide A.

(Oct 24 '13 at 05:00) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

B says he/she wants to be guided too. B says this but his/her real intention is only to give the false impression to others that he/she is after guidance, is Allah fearing and humble. B is saying quite the opposite to him/herself in the head, chooses continuously to do haram actions and has no honesty in his/her intention. As Allah knows this, He WILLS not to guide. The will refers to Allah's ability to SEE and HEAR and KNOW everything. Moreover, Allah knows B's future thoughts, words and actions.

(Oct 24 '13 at 05:06) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

B cannot hide his/her real self from Allah. You see, we don't have a problem understanding this....and there is nothing for us to ignore. Allah does not 'let people to be astray', He just knows each individual better than they know themselves. BTW, remember, we ARE talking about the same Allah, to whom you casually refer to as God. If you are saying all this about Him and then going to the church to pray to Him (hopefully, you ARE praying to Him and NOT a prophet or a messiah, for He sent them by His will) then this is an action of a hypocrite. Salaam

(Oct 24 '13 at 05:19) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

How can you direct slander and prayers to the same? Think about it.

(Oct 24 '13 at 05:20) stronghold ♦ stronghold's gravatar image

By yaqin: "Allah is not god, this is by definition."

So Allah is who? Muslim´s say that Allah created everything, but Allah is not god. Then who is Allah if he is not a god?

You should read your book(the Qur´an) for it states much and contradicts in the same book.. So who is living in backwards time I say?

(Oct 24 '13 at 09:28) UnknownUser UnknownUser's gravatar image
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Asked: Oct 19 '13 at 10:47

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Last updated: Oct 25 '13 at 01:49

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