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and what is the meaning of "Ouli el Amr"?

asked 387116 inclined2truth's gravatar image
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This article is in response to a man that asked the question......Why is Following the Other Madhhab a Punishable Offence Question Some ahl-e-hadith pointed out this to me: Following the Other Madhhab is a Punishable Offence “If someone is a Hanafee and becomes a Shafi’ee, then his witness will not be accepted” (Durr Mukhtaar (Urdu Trans.), vol.3, p.297) “When a person switches from one Madhhab to another Madhhab, he shall be inflicted with Ta’zeer.” (Durrul Mukhtar) Ta’zeer refers to punishment meted out by an Islamic court. Such punishment may either be flogging or imprisonment.” Kitabul-Imaan p.73. Q. Is this true? If so, isn't that too harsh as all mazahib are within ahle sunnat?

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful Assalaamu `alaykum waRahmatullahi Wabarakatoh It is true that all four mazahib are right, and following any one of them is permissible in order to follow Shari’ah. However, a layman, who lacks the ability to distinguish the arguments of each mazhab, cannot be allowed to pick and choose between different views only to satisfy his personal desires.

The Holy Quran, in a number of verses, has emphatically ordered us to follow the Shari’ah, and has made it strictly prohibited to follow the personal desires. The Muslim jurists, while interpreting the sources of Shari’ah, never intend to satisfy their personal desires. They actually undertake an honest effort to discover the intention of Shari’ah and base their mazhab on the force of evidence, not on the search for convenience. They do not choose an interpretation, from amongst the various ones, on the basis of its suitability to their personal fancies. They choose it only because the strength of the proofs leads them to do so.

Now, if a layman, who cannot judge between the arguments of different mazahib, is allowed to choose any of the juristic views without going into the arguments they have advanced, he will be at liberty to select only those views which seem to him more fulfilling to his personal requirements. This attitude will lead him to follow his desires and not the guidance. Such a practice is totally condemned in Quran.

Therefore, when one selects a particular mazhab, he should adopt it in all matters with all its details. He should not pick and choose between different views for his individual benefit. Contemporay Fatawa – Justice Muhammed Taqi uthmani Pg:325 (Idara-e-Islamiyat) The words of Durrul Mukhtar, mentioned in the query have been clarified by Allamah Ibn Aabideen in his sharah, Raddul Muhtar. He explains that switching from one mazhab to the other is not permissible and is a punishable act, when it is done for worldly reasons or to fulfil one’s desires.

There is no harm in changing from one mazhab to the other for a reason that is valid in Shari’ah. For example, it is not permissible for a person to change his mazhab in order to get married to a woman from another mazhab. The nikah of this person will be valid, but he is liable for ta’zeer and his witness will not be accepted, as he had taken the matters of Deen lightly, in order to achieve a worldly benefit.

Raddul Muhtar Vol:4 Pg:80 (H.M. Sa’eed Company)

ارتحل إلى مذهب الشافعي يعزر سراجية .

مطلب فيما إذا ارتحل إلى غير مذهبه ( قوله ارتحل إلى مذهب الشافعي يعزر ) أي إذا كان ارتحاله لا لغرض محمود شرعا ، لما في التتارخانية : حكي أن رجلا من أصحاب أبي حنيفة خطب إلى رجل من أصحاب الحديث ابنته في عهد أبي بكر الجوزجاني فأبى إلا أن يترك مذهبه فيقرأ خلف الإمام ، ويرفع يديه عند الانحطاط ونحو ذلك فأجابه فزوجه ، فقال الشيخ بعدما سئل عن هذه وأطرق رأسه : النكاح جائز ولكن أخاف عليه أن يذهب إيمانه وقت النزع ؛ لأنه استخف بمذهبه الذي هو حق عنده وتركه لأجل جيفة منتنة ، ولو أن رجلا برئ من مذهبه باجتهاد وضح له كان محمودا مأجورا . أما انتقال غيره من غير دليل بل لما يرغب من عرض الدنيا وشهوتها فهو المذموم الآثم المستوجب للتأديب والتعزير لارتكابه المنكر في الدين واستخفافه بدينه ومذهبه ا هـ ملخصا .

Raddul Muhtar Vol:5 Pg:481 (H.M. Sa’eed Company)

ولا من انتقل من مذهب أبي حنيفة إلى مذهب الشافعي رضي الله تعالى عنه

( قوله من مذهب أبي حنيفة ) أي استخفافا .

قال في القنية من كتاب الكراهية : ليس للعامي أن يتحول من مذهب إلى مذهب ، ويستوي فيه الحنفي والشافعي ، وقيل لمن انتقل إلى مذهب الشافعي ليزوج له أخاف أن يموت مسلوب الإيمان لإهانته للدين لجيفة قذرة . وفي آخر هذا الباب من المنح : وإن انتقل إليه لقلة مبالاته في الاعتقاد والجراءة على الانتقال من مذهب إلى مذهب كما يتفق له ويميل طبعه إليه لغرض يحصل له فإنه لا تقبل شهادته ا هـ . فعلم بمجموع ما ذكرناه أن ذلك غير خاص بانتقال الحنفي وأنه إذا لم يكن لغرض صحيح ، فافهم ولا تكن من المتعصبين فتحرم بركة الأئمة المجتهدين ، وقدمنا هذا البحث مستوفى في فصل التعزير فارجع إليه .

And Allah knows best Wassalam Ml. M. Jawed Iqbal, Student Darul Iftaa Checked and Approved by: Mufti Ebrahim Desai Darul Iftaa, Madrassah In'aamiyyah....Askimam.com

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answered 3487 abyadgirl's gravatar image

Elhamdoulellah and Allah's salaah(showers of nearness of mercy) and salaam(peace) are upon Rasoul-Allah.

The word "Ouli el amr" was mentioned in Quran karim twice. (in the sourah no.4 verse 59 and verse 83.) the word "Ouli" is in plural and means; possessors of, ones of or owners of.. and "al amr" is the command, matter or affair or authority. Thus "Ouli el amr" means the possessors of command/matter or ones of authority.

before we listen and try to understand the words of Allah in the verse 4:59 we will need to listen to one verse before it to understand more; (4:58-59)

"Indeed, Allāh commands you to render trusts to whom they are due and when you judge between people to judge with justice. Excellent is that which Allāh instructs you. Indeed, Allāh is ever Hearing and Seeing. O you who have believed, obey Allāh and obey the Messenger and those in authority(Ouli el Amr) among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allāh and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allāh and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result."

We will notice the following; 1)Allah is commanding the ones who have the opportunities of judging to judge with justice. beside returning the trusts to its people.. and that is the best instruction/manual from our Lord(creator and guide and provider...etc). 2)Then Allah is speaking to the believers commanding them to obey Allah and the Messenger and Ouli el Amr. 3) Then Allah is telling us that if we disagree about anything then we should refer/return it to Allah and His Messenger.. and that doing this is good and better ta2weel(interpretation/result). and that the ones who believe in Allah and the Last day will do so.

Ouli al amr have two meanings; 1.they are the leaders (but) who do not command disobedience to Allah since there "should be no obedience to a creature in the disobedience of the Creator." as this verse was descent when one of this leaders in one of the battles was telling his group did not the prophet command you to follow me 2.(second meaning of ouli-el-amr) they are the ones with Knowledge of Quran and sunnah, and that is why in the rest of the verse it said; "But if you disagree about anything then refer it to Allah and His Messengers" and that is by two meanings a)to draw correct conclusion from Quran(words of Allah) and sunnah(model of the prophet) or b) or to say "Allah and His Messenger knows better" when we do not find a Nass/statement of Quran, nor in hadeeth, nor in Jama3a/group of muslims agreement.

and we will understand better when we listen to the second verse which mentioned ouli el amr;

"And when there comes to them information about [public] security or fear, they spread it around. But if they had referred it back to the Messenger or to those of authority(ouli-el-amr) among them, then the ones who [can] draw correct conclusions from it would have known about it. And if not for the favor of Allāh upon you and His mercy, you would have followed Satan, except for a few."

we will notice the following; 1)some of the muslims were spreading some matters/news about security or fear while the war/battles which is not good.. as they are spreading news which might harm(as the enemy of islam spy).. 2)but they should not spread anything of security or fear unless it is returned to(approved by) the Messenger or to/by ouli-el-amr. 3) If they did so(refer/return/approved the matter to Allah and ouli-el-amr), then the ones who can draw the correct conclusion from that matter would have known it. yastanbitouna-hou, yastanbitoun the matter. yastanbit in the language means; to bring the water from the underground. or to bring the correct meaning/conclusion from the inside/depth of Quran and Sunnah.

Thus the meaning of ouli-el-amr here also might carry the meaning of the righteous princes/leaders who might obtain the optimum thing to do depend on the matter regarding war or peace.. or the knowledgeable who also might obtain the correct command for the different issues from Quran and Sunnah. and those are the ones9ouli el amr) that we should obey/follow.

and Allah ta3ala and His Messenger salla Allahou 3alayhi wa sallam knows better. Al salaamou alaikoum.

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answered 387116 inclined2truth's gravatar image
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@inclined2truth Beloved, al hamdulilah for your post, you and I have talked about this so no need to dig back into it. Yes it is ok to take from those of knowledge as long as what they are presenting is quran and authenticated .sunnah, because we are not obeying them persay we would be obeying the haqq which inshallah would be made simple and clear by those with ilm. My question to you is which ulleema should we obey for we know it is not just one? Salaam

(Nov 14 '13 at 00:08) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

the verse clearly did not say that they are just one, but many.. as "ouli el amr" itself is a plural and in the verse it explained that they are "the ones who can draw correct conclusion among them." was also plural using "the ones" So nobody said that they are just one.

You did not answer me in the other subject when I asked you if you use translations to understand Quran or you use Arabic Quran directly?

(Nov 14 '13 at 00:38) inclined2truth inclined2truth's gravatar image

"Beloved brother I understand from both aspects," this is my answer from before go back and check it so I understand, now you say that it is plural and this is the haqq, now the reality as I said before is that there is more than one uleema and they all don't agree some of them are deemed as deviant in the deen so do we take from all of them? Again I tell you brother we follow and obey Allah and his Rasul only, and the ones in authority are only obeyed when they are uponthe quran and authenticated sunnah We just don't obey them because they are in authority, for the ayah also says if we differ

(Nov 14 '13 at 01:16) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image
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we are to refer it back to Allah and his Rasul. If we differ with whom beloved? The ones in authority and if what they say or did has no bases in the quran and sunnah than we must reject it. This is the haqq, taqleed in islam is haram. Salaam

(Nov 14 '13 at 01:37) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
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Beloved brother I sense that my question are bothersome to some I only ask or pointout the facts I don't look for the reason why the facts are sometimes looked over this is not wrong. We had a beautiful talk, well it was so for me and I don't want you to think that I don't love and respect Uthman because I do so as I do all of the sahabah that held firm to the rope of Allah. I only ask you and a few people on this site because I respect the ilm they have otherwise I wouldn't ask, I would correct when I could or I would say nothing. But I see some take offense to this and resort to name calling

(Nov 14 '13 at 10:05) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
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basically making takfir on me and my family. This I resent, so I'm writing you to inform you that if you have a problem with me asking or open up the way of islamic talk. Then I will not do so with you,just let me know.as far as I'm concerned I welcome it. Salaam my brother may Allah reward you.

(Nov 14 '13 at 10:10) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Brother Yaqeen and Sadie are the same person?

Thanks for clearing your situation especially about sayidna Uthman. I want to remind you that in your other subject "two adhan" I did not want to argue because I think it harms more than it benefits but you said that you like to do conversation with me, and you said we should stick to Quran, then I brought my proof from Quran and trying to understand it properly together but then it is you who ended the discussion, unfortunately. it made me very depressed and I did not want to comment to not harm you.. except saying salaam alaikum to you.

(Nov 14 '13 at 11:08) inclined2truth inclined2truth's gravatar image

another point beloved brother is that you should know that you are not learning from Arabic Quran directly, but in fact through translations of people's understanding to the words of Allah. Indeed Quran is not easy to be understood for Arabic mother speaker and he should do a lot of efforts to understand it.. but for you (and reward upon Allah) you should do double efforts and listen to people's explanations for that you might understand the real (meanings of the) words of Allah in Quran. so please do not humiliate the knowledgeable muslims. and notice that for me and for you we should confess

(Nov 14 '13 at 11:15) inclined2truth inclined2truth's gravatar image

"... no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allāh" (3:7) wa assalaamou alaikum, may Allah reward you for your good intention and bless you.

(Nov 14 '13 at 11:17) inclined2truth inclined2truth's gravatar image

@inclined2truth, you touched on the point about the Arabic language, this is the main crux of interpretation and understanding. Many Hadiths have not yet been translated from Arabic, so even now we are in a limited source. This is where the real expertise comes in. In todays society, even among Arabs, they and we have limited grasp of the language. So what knowledge and grasping of this language is the very first thing we should be doing.Asalaam. ps, i thought i was reading yaqin and noticed it was sadie???? strange that!!!

(Nov 14 '13 at 13:15) abyadgirl abyadgirl's gravatar image
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Beloved brother, me and sadie are not the same person,I asked her to cut and paste my response from our last discusion, then I edited it and wrote my comment nothing strange. Now brother if you was asking me if arabic is my native tongue than my answer is no. My arabia is good though, I learned as a young boy in school, my teacher was from the sudan, but you are correct when you say it is not an easy language to interpered. Beloved, my grandfather, my father and his twin brother and his oldest brother are all hafiz in quran. I have a wealth of knowledge around me.so when I get stuck on

(Nov 14 '13 at 13:36) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
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understanding I do as you say I check with my sources around me and outside of me, and I stand on the strongest proof of the word or phrase. But thankyou for the reminder for reminding profits the believers.Beloved I explained to you why I ended the talk that being we were not going to agree, for you was going to stick to what you been taught and I the same. So the talk now becomes an arguement and I didn't want to do that. So I asked Allah to call us on the day and inform us the correct stance on this issue, insahallah my dua will be granted. Brother I beg you to forgive me for any bad

(Nov 14 '13 at 13:50) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

thinking about why people post things on other Muslim post

(Nov 14 '13 at 13:53) Bibi Amina ♦ Bibi%20Amina's gravatar image
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feelings that you incured because of me Allah knows that was not my intention. Yes I confess that no one knows its true meaning. Beloved I don't humiliate the knowledgable Muslims I just don't accept what they say without checking then questioning that which does not stand on the foundation of textual proof. This my brother I do to safeguard my deen. Imam Malik has warned us in a athar: Be very careful who you accept your deen from. This is why I question those in authority, not to humiliate or disrespect them but to safeguard as you should. Taqleed is haram. ..salaam

(Nov 14 '13 at 14:17) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
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no brother do not say so.. it is you who should forgive me if I hurt you by any mean. May Allah let us be of the ones who hear the (different) speeches, so they follow the best of it. and may he let us see the truth as truth and provide us following it and to see the falsehood as falsehood and provide us avoiding it.

"Indeed, Allāh defends those who have believed. Indeed, Allāh does not like everyone treacherous and ungrateful."(22:38)

"Unquestionably, [for] the allies of Allāh there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve –Those who believed and were fearing Allāh."(10:62-63)

(Nov 14 '13 at 16:47) inclined2truth inclined2truth's gravatar image

@abyadgirl, I agree with your reply sister. it is a relief, elhamdoulellah!

(Nov 14 '13 at 16:51) inclined2truth inclined2truth's gravatar image

Al hamdulilah beloved may Allah bless the believers. Ameen

(Nov 14 '13 at 17:23) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
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Asked: Nov 13 '13 at 23:29

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Last updated: Nov 15 '13 at 03:55



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