just that.

asked (suspended) mikejm3's gravatar image

She was the wife of the Rasul saws and the mother if his son ibrahim. Whats the point?

(Nov 15 '13 at 21:44) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

the point is, she was muhammad's concubine, not a wife. gifted to muhammad along with her sister. not a prisoner of war?

so muhammad did have sex with his slaves? not all slaves are war booty? muhammad accepted people (maybe just beautiful women) as gifts?

yes she did bare him a son, abraham. died in early childhood. did his death coincide with the eclipse?

(Nov 15 '13 at 22:05) mikejm3 mikejm3's gravatar image

Mike the problem is that you are looking at this topic through tunnel vision. He didnt do anything wrong this practice of sleeping with concubines did not start with him. Remember Hagar was sarah bondsmaid? Now there are some historians that say she was his wife. Eitherway wife or not he did no wrong when he went into her. Matter of fact, he spent more time with her and this made the rest of his wives jealous and revelation came down to correct his decesion to stay away from her at the beguest of Aisha and Hafsa. Allah reminded him that what he was doing was lawful. Salaam

(Nov 15 '13 at 23:29) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

yaqin, let me ask you this. would you consider taking a slave a moral act today? would you consider having a concubine ethical today? is morality timeless? sorry brother but it is not my vision that is tunneled by a book, a man or a god. someone erased my comment on the other question, but why did allah not make slavery unlawful with adam, lot, noah, moses, jesus? and most certainly one would think he would mention it to his "last" prophet. unless ofcourse god wants slavery to still exist? namastade

(Nov 16 '13 at 09:59) mikejm3 mikejm3's gravatar image

"Matter of fact, he spent more time with her and this made the rest of his wives jealous and revelation came down to correct his decesion to stay away from her at the beguest of Aisha and Hafsa. Allah reminded him that what he was doing was lawful" so that is another YES to, you are allowed to cheat on your wife with your slave girl? why didn't you answer that question then? funny i was looking for the coptic slave girl name yesterday and there was a website with a different take in the story. can't find it, but heres another different view: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=311558

(Nov 16 '13 at 10:14) mikejm3 mikejm3's gravatar image

Mike the site you have post it isn't islam site it is catholic site. Salam

(Nov 16 '13 at 10:17) Bibi Amina ♦ Bibi%20Amina's gravatar image

Mike you use the term slavegirl with your western concept of what slavery is. So if you are asking me from that veiwpiont than of coarse my answer is no. What we are discussing my friend is a system where it is commanded that if you have a person man or woman, for whatever reason be it spoils of war or debt etc, they must be treated as your equal and not to do so makes the muslim fasiq disobidient and this is a grave sin. Mike in this system lies the foundation to abolish the immoral act you so passionately are defending. Now you say that the Rasul cheated on his wives, again you are applying

(Nov 16 '13 at 10:54) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Your western concept of marriage to this situation and here is the problem, so now I must ask you a question beloved what consitutes a marriage in islam? Well let me answer it for you because I don't want you to go to some hit in the head website to get a misguided answer. It is simple, you must give dowery and you must consumate the marriage. This is marriage in Islam as done by the Rasul and his companions. Now with this in mind was Maria his sex slave as you call her or his wife? Was he cheating on Aisha when he went to Hafsa? No mike he was well inside the bounds sent down by Allah.

(Nov 16 '13 at 11:09) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Mike, I didnt answer the other question because I want other muslims that are here on this site that are knowledgable to answer what you posted from that wretched website. The problem to your post for some is that you used quran and sunnah to back up your claim. So some want to ban you and others want to delete what you posted but none refutes it, ma'shallah. Salaam

(Nov 16 '13 at 11:17) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

let me from the bottomto the top. the other question, i first posted a link to islamqa. someone said it was the haqq and voted for it. then someone deleted it. and other's were sayingislam abolished slavery, which is clearly untrue. was maria his wife? did he give her a dowry/mahr? don't you have to say something? nikah? is a_girl married to the tunisian in germany? i don't thnk she consumated anything but faisal says she needs to pay the council 410lbs to get her divorce. as for the word cheating that was the questioners word. obviously if you're "allowed" it's not cheating. the question

(Nov 16 '13 at 11:41) mikejm3 mikejm3's gravatar image

is flawed but seems everyone should understand what she was asking. you can call maria the copt a wife if you want. but there is more than one muslim scholar who calls maria a concubine.

so to the larger issue, slavery. again you mention the "western concept". so tell me what is slavery? can you come and go as you please? you say the slave is eqaul to the master. how can that be?

(Nov 16 '13 at 11:53) mikejm3 mikejm3's gravatar image

can the slave sell the master?

"He didnt do anything wrong this practice of sleeping with concubines did not start with him. Remember Hagar was sarah bondsmaid?" so now she's back to being a concubine? you confuse me. either way. now you bring up hagar who was abondoned by your prophet abraham.

"No mike he was well inside the bounds sent down by Allah." so those bounds still exist today?

i'll ask again: would you consider taking a slave a moral act today? would you consider having a concubine ethical today? is morality timeless? or should i ask is islamic morality timeless?

(Nov 16 '13 at 12:15) mikejm3 mikejm3's gravatar image
showing 5 of 12 show all

http://www.islamqa.com/en/47572 from an islamic website. kind of like a blow to the head.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah, rather she was a concubine who was given to him by al-Muqawqis, the ruler of Egypt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_al-Qibtiyya

Concubine Status[edit]Multiple Scholars and authors have mentioned Maria al-Qibtiyya as one of the concubines (out of four) of Muhammad.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah, rather she was a concubine who was given to him by al-Muqawqis, the ruler of Egypt. That took place after the treaty of al-Hudaybiyah. Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah was a Christian, then she became Muslim (may Allaah be pleased with her).

—Ibn Saad, The Life of Prophet The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) lodged her – meaning Mariyah al-Qibtiyyah and her sister – with Umm Sulaym bint Milhaan, and the Messenger of Allaah (S) entered upon them and told them about Islam. He took Mariyah as a concubine and moved her to some property of his in al-‘Awaali… and she became a good Muslim.

—Al-Tabaqaat al-Kubra, 1/134-135 Mariyah died during the caliphate of ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, in Muharram of 16 AH. ‘Umar gathered the people himself to attend her funeral, and he led the funeral prayer for her. She was buried in al-Baqee’.

—Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr, Al-Isti’aab, 4/1912 The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had four concubines, one of whom was Mariyah.

—Ibn al-Qayyim , biography Abu ‘Ubaydah said: He had four (concubines): Mariyah, who was the mother of his son Ibraaheem; Rayhaanah; another beautiful slave woman whom he acquired as a prisoner of war; and a slave woman who was given to him by Zaynab bint Jahsh.

—Zaad al-Ma’aad, 1/114

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edited Nov 16 '13 at 13:15

Well mike, I see we agrer on one point that being that the Rasul saws was doing nothing wrong for he followed what was revealed to him. The Torah didn't say Hagar was Abrahams concubine it states Hagar gave to her husband to be his wife. I don't know a girls situation so I have no comment. But I know consumating the marriage is a must. Yes there are scholars that say she was not married to him, and some say she was. The fact is that she held the title as mother of the believers as Aisha and the rest did. You ask about how can one treat one considered to be a slave as his equal.? Mike this was

(Nov 16 '13 at 15:03) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

a requirement and it had to be adhered to and thay goes for woman also. He had to treat Maria as he did his other wives. Mike his dowery was her foid and clothing and housing and we know he consumated the union. If you treat some as an equal can that one go and come as he pleases? We all must fulfill ones obligation however after that as an equal one can go and come as one feels. This is the concept ordained by Allah, now do I think it has been implemented, no, but this does not negate the facts of how it should be. Can a slave sell the master? Not if they are considered equal... Mike you

(Nov 16 '13 at 15:44) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

and I have been talking for awhile and you know how I feel about the system in place which grades hadiths, the problem with your other post are the hadiths used and if you weigh them against the book they are to be rejected, so that wretched site is to be rejected. Salaam

(Nov 16 '13 at 16:04) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

"Well mike, I see we agrer on one point that being that the Rasul saws was doing nothing wrong for he followed what was revealed to him." no we disagree totally. i think it is immoral to enslave someone. i think it is immoral to sell someone.

"Mike his dowery was her foid and clothing and housing" so no mahr has to actually be given up front?

"Can a slave sell the master? Not if they are considered equal..." what does that mean. lol. ok so why can a master sell a slave?

(Nov 16 '13 at 18:58) mikejm3 mikejm3's gravatar image
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Asked: Nov 15 '13 at 17:24

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Last updated: Nov 16 '13 at 19:00


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