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It is very wrong to mislead people only to make yourself feel better. You think Islam is worth supporting because all your peers are into it, because your family tradition is Islamic or because it was the first „comfort“ you found on your quest for God. This is not a willful deception. But it's still very wrong - and yes, very sad!

asked 106 Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

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Islam is perfect "deen". There is no doubt. Islam dont depend on any peer or anybody except Allah. Allah is enough for all things.

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answered 10 Allahbakash's gravatar image
edited Apr 30 at 13:26 abdul_wasay ♦ 8588 abdul_wasay's gravatar image

I have often wondered what would happen if I started a church and taught Islam in English but told everyone that it was Christianity. Does anyone who is Muslim think they would know? I have heard stories where similar things like that have happened. Is it true?

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answered 101 Thomas68's gravatar image

As I quoted in first Hadith that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said that all prophets brought the same message, to obey and worship one God, Allah.

I have heard though a story of a Christian convert who is was priest. He consulted his other friend priest about Islam but his friend didn't accept for the fear of being killed. So this priest he migrated to some other place and later accepted Islam. So we can argue some priests are under pressure to remain Christian.

And yes you can but the Christian might ask why isn't Jesus (ra) being mentioned a lot.

(Apr 28 at 09:25) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

This might interest you:

And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen). [5:116]

And some interesting reasoning Allah uses:

(Apr 28 at 09:35) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

No son (or offspring) did Allah beget, nor is there any ilah (god) along with Him. (If there had been many gods), then each god would have taken away what he had created, and some would have tried to overcome others! Glorified be Allah above all that they attribute to Him!

(Al-Mumenoon, Chapter #23, Verse #91)--related to point 6

Which is a very logical

(Apr 28 at 09:35) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

It is strange that you quote that, because as I was reading the Quran, it was those passages that caught my interest. I always have known that God was ONE. I could never accept the trinity. I am very troubled by a religion ( modern Christianity) that makes God into gods. Jesus says that he is not God several times in the Bible, but they refuse to accept his words. He does say that he is "a son of God", but if you look at HIS definition of "son of God" it applies to anyone who submits to the will of God. Jesus says we all can become "sons of God" if we follow God and sin not.

(Apr 28 at 14:08) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

That is far from saying he is the biological son/ offspring of God.

God creates. God does not procreate. He says BE and it IS.

Lets compare: Jesus is said to be the offspring of God because God caused Mary to become pregnant while being a virgin. (Christian view) So, by default that would have to make every child born in the same manner his offspring? God caused Sara to become pregnant didn't he? Wouldn't that make Isaac the son of God?

(Apr 28 at 14:13) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Dear Thomas, when Jesus came to be born into this world he has given up his godly glory and so on. He became one of us. So he was not here as a god. But he was well connected to God, the Father (just as Christians are: through the Holy Spirit). And he said that he and the Father are one. So Jesus represents an aspect of God (and since our God has created us to have a relationship with us, he himself is a unique relationship of Father-Jesus-Spirit), but on earth Jesus has left that behind to become one of us! I don't know, but maybe that's a fresh look at the trinity?

(Apr 28 at 14:17) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

According to Christian doctrine, that would make Isaac also God? Now there are 4 gods in the Trinity. And the list can keep going because God caused many women to become pregnant. If it is the virgin thing that counts there is another virgin in the bible that God caused to be with child. (Sorry I can't recall her name right now) My point is Mr. HadDoubts, I can poke holes in all of the Christian doctrines easily, when they stray from the truth that Jesus taught. And for the record only Matthew and John were Apostles. What about the other 10 books of the Apostles?? Why leave them out?

(Apr 28 at 14:19) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Thomas. We don't need to stop here. But I don't think it's very fruitful :) Why don't you just ask your creator himself. You're even allowed to tell him that you dislike Christianity and their doctrines. And if he could explain that to you. It's the Living God. And he is interested to show that to you personally. Ask him all your questions. And tell him that his plan to save the creation is stupid. He can handle that, I promise. The curtain was torn apart. You have direct access! Free of charge.

(Apr 28 at 14:27) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

Thank you for your reply Mr. HadDoubts. I would just ask for you to show me one scripture written by Jesus that says any of what you just wrote...You are quoting what someone else thought about him, not what he said about himself. Christianity has a bad habit of that. Taking something that Paul said and saying Jesus said it. There lies the problem with your comment.

On a side note, Isn't it IRONIC that two Christians are debating Christianity on an Islamic site??? Isn't God wonderful. Mr. HadDoubts, Please let go of the dogma and read the Bible with an open mind.

(Apr 28 at 14:31) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

I and the Father are one

John 10:30

(Apr 28 at 14:35) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

Then read the Quran and compare the teachings of Jesus to the teachings of Muhammad. I think you will be pleasantly surprised that they are the same. I do have a research question for you Mr Doubts. As a Christian do you side with the (current)Jewish religion? Does your church teach that we must side with them no matter what?

(Apr 28 at 14:37) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

I don't know why you insist that they taught the same. I really can't see that.

And the Jews are our spiritual roots. That doesn't mean we have to support the state of Israel (in Europe even the Christians are not very supportive of that project). But if we would cut our own roots, that would be quite stupid, since the branch would be dead quickly, i.e. the legitimacy of the Christian creed would be gone.

(Apr 28 at 14:43) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

And if you're asking about the current Jewish religion: They've added lots of laws around the Torah to protect the Torah, as they say. That's illegal. Man-made laws. That's a catastrophe!

(Apr 28 at 14:46) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

just quickly then I will be done as you say, fruitless. I and the father are one needs to be in context. read it all.. what he is saying is that he represents God as a prophet. What he says is what God would say. If you have seen me you have seen the Father..I am his representative on Earth. God gave him that authority. That is what a prophet is.. In Catholicism, that is the Pope. He is the representative of God on Earth. I just don't know why some can't see the patterns that God shows to me. Or maybe I'm the insane one... I have to accept that possibility if I am to be honest.

(Apr 28 at 14:47) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

I have to go to work, you all be blessed and thank you all for your time

(Apr 28 at 14:48) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

As long as you have work I don't think you're insane. ;)

And you can also try chapter 17 (John) and also read how Jesus tells people that their sin is forgiven. And then read the traditional Jewish prophets (Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Joel and so on). They're so different that the Jews accused Jesus of blasphemy. I can understand that.

(Apr 28 at 14:56) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

It is so difficult to explain my position in such a short time. My position is based on the entire history of man, as written in the Bible itself. It would be pointless to use any other book than the Bible to convince a Christian, because Christians don't believe (in general) any other writings. The sad part is ( or good ) that in the pages of the Bible it shows that the Jewish people do not hold the right to the covenant.

(Apr 29 at 12:41) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

It shows that the Jewish did NOT fulfil their obligation and therefore GOD said to Moses that Moses' children would inherit the Covenant of the promised land and all it's blessings. Moses' Children were of the Ishmaelites who lived in Canaan. They were the ones Joshua and the Hebrews / Israel / Jews murdered to get the land. If you read before they took the land, GOD said IF you obey Me and follow the Ten Commandments, I (GOD) will drive out those inhabitants by drought and wasps. Were they driven out like that by GOD, or did Joshua son of Nun murder thousands of innocent women and children?

(Apr 29 at 12:42) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

That is just one example. I don't understand why Christians can't see that simple fact. I didn't make that up. I didn't write the Bible. My hat goes off to the writers who actually told the truth in the Bible. But how can you read the Bible and just ignore the facts that show the path of the Covenant? Your Christianity is not tied to the Jewish religion in any way. If you believe in Jesus as I do, Then you read in Revelation where Jesus re-established ISRAEL. 12 tribes of Israel=12 Apostles. Peter even says that there HAS TO BE 12. Why? Because Jesus came to re-establish the true Israel.

(Apr 29 at 12:50) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Why did the Jewish need Jesus dead? Not because he claimed to be God or the Son of God,but because Jesus knew the truth about their religion. Judah is not Israel and Jewish is not the religion of Israel. Judah left Israel. What was the name of the religion of Israel before Judah existed? Judah himself was not Jewish. The jewish religion wasn't invented until after the Hebrews were freed from Egypt.

(Apr 29 at 12:55) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

From my research the Jewish religion worships a god named Yahh, which is said to be short for Yahovah. Yah being the name of their god and Hovah which in the Hebrew language means to ruin. Really? Yah Ruins? in Hebrew Gods name is EL, which is the first letter of the alephbet. This letter is silent. That is why you can't say the name of God in Hebrew. In Hebrew, God is spelled Eloah, where the EL is pronounced "ALE". Aloah. In hebrew Allah is mighty oak. A representation of something mighty. But in Arabic Allah is the same word as Eloah. Almighty God. different language but same meaning.

(Apr 29 at 13:02) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

To prove my point can you remember the names of the Angels. Gabri'el, Micha'el, and so on. Gabri- of God, Micha- of God. and so on. In Hebrew and the Israel religion EL or Eloah is God not Yah. If you read the Bible you will see that the first use of Yahh occurs just after Joshua defeats Amalek. Where God calls Joshua, Yahh. God said that Amalek had fought against the throne of Yahh.

(Apr 29 at 13:16) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

14 Adonai said to Moshe, “Write this in a book to be remembered, and tell it to Yahoshua: I will completely blot out any memory of ‘Amalek from under heaven.” 15 Moshe built an altar, called it Adonai Nissi [Adonai is my banner/miracle], 16 and said, “Because their hand was against the throne of Yah, Adonai will fight ‘Amalek generation after generation.”

you can clearly see that Yahh and Adonai are not the same, otherwise God would have just said "MY THRONE" My conclusion is that Yahh cannot be God and therefore Jehovah cannot be God.

(Apr 29 at 13:19) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

New Jerusalem has a new foundation....Each Apostle represents a tribe of Israel. Jesus created a new Israel because the Old Israel had been destroyed. Not the land of Israel but the religion of Israel. Jesus' mission was to re establish Israel and to try to convert the Jewish religion into the Israel religion. But as Jesus said....They were of their father Satan. So I must follow Jesus' teachings.

(Apr 29 at 13:31) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

But what most forget. A Christian is to submit to the will of God. Which in Arabic is the word Muslim. So to be a true Christian you must be Muslim. And to Worship God you must know who He is. In Hebrew He is Eloah and in Arabic He is Allah. Same God different language. I pose to you that the whole problem is the language barrier. "tower of babble"? I have found every teaching of Jesus in the Quran so therefore I can easily accept it as truth also. The Quran is not wrong, only written in a different language for a different people.

Please understand, please.

May God bless everyone

(Apr 29 at 13:37) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

I understand. But I'm afraid I have to disagree :)

  1. I also have great respect for those that wrote the Bible and documented the unmasked tragedy of an unfaithful people. But God is faithful. He cannot break his Covenant.
  2. Jehovah (at least in the German theology) is for a long time proven not to be a possible vocalization of the name of God. It's most probably Yahwe.
  3. Christianity is about submission. Yes. But only after you let Jesus submit to you. He needs to wash your feet. He said: "I am gentle and humble in heart". God comes as a beggar! "Please, let me find a home in your heart."
(Apr 29 at 16:47) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

Thomas you arenot insane it is as it is because you read it by urself rather than church reading it for u withoutt verse contexts

Faith without logic is illogical remember it!

Btw i assume u watched ahmed deedat debate on christian topics like is jesus god? It on youtube. It might interest u

(Apr 29 at 20:17) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

Thank you Mr. Abdul_wasay I will watch it.

Mr. Doubts, I agree with your points 100%. I think you are correct that God cannot break his Covenant. But His Covenant was IF you Follow my Commandments, NOT no matter what you do I will give you a reward. The tribes in the desert never fulfilled their part, and that is why God never drove out the people with drought and wasps. It is my theory that they sided with the god that would give them what they wanted. One God said you must obey the Commandments, the other said Lets just take what we want.

(Apr 29 at 22:42) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Your next point is that Jehovah isn't their gods name? Ask a Jewish person what the name is and I always get Yahovah or Jehovah. Strangely the letter J was invented around the 1500's. So there never was a J in Hebrew. But lets say your right. You still have a god named Yahh.

3268 Ya`aziy'el yah-az-ee-ale' from 3267 and 410; emboldened of God;

3269 Ya`aziyahuw yah-az-ee-yaw'-hoo from 3267 and 3050; emboldened of Jah

3460 Yishma`yah yish-mah-yaw' or Yishmacyahuw {yish-mah-yaw'-hoo}; from 8085 and 3050; Jah will hear

3458 Yishma`e'l yish-maw-ale' from 8085 and 410; God will hear

(Apr 29 at 22:53) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Your third point is correct. God comes as a beggar. He gave us free will, and He wont force us to Worship Him. Why did you choose those passages in that way? Did you choose just those parts or was it coincidence that you left out the first part? lets see what the whole thing said shall we?

(Apr 29 at 23:04) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

(Apr 29 at 23:04) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Is Jesus untruthful when he says The Father is the one giving him his authority? Or is Jesus untruthful when he says I and the Father are one? There is only one way to make Jesus NOT a liar, and that is to read those passages that seem to contradict and make them in harmony. The only way to do that is to say that Jesus is not God but is in complete agreement with God in what needs done. Jesus was saying if you want to know God, follow my example. God bestowed on Jesus an understanding/ knowledge of God.

(Apr 29 at 23:12) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Again I thank you for this debate and your patients. Most get mad and start insulting rather than debating. I do believe that you believe what you say and your responses show that. It is a pleasure talking to you.

May God bless you all.

(Apr 29 at 23:16) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

I just want to make a clarification. In John and other places in the New Testament, The phrase "son of God" is used many times. In the Greek it was written "Theo ho Theos".

Theos=2316= A deity.

Ho=3588= THE or TO.

Theo=5087= Submit to, be submissive to.

So literally it says: Submissive to The Deity or Submissive to God. In Greek the article HO, when placed in front of Theos, always refers to the Supreme Deity. Ho Theos = THE Theos = THE GOD

As fate would have it, that phrase; submissive to God is the word Muslim in Arabic. The facts keep proving my theory. :)

(Apr 30 at 10:50) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Lets look at the word Joshua.. In Hebrew it is Yĕhowshuwa`. If we break it into it's individual words it is- Yahh o Shuwa. or Yahh of Shuwa.

Shuwa = wealth or riches

We end up with Yahh of wealth. Could this mean that Yahh is a lover of wealth? Satan was a lover of wealth in Genensis. Solomon was too. Solomon worshipped Yahh/Jehovoh. Solomon built a temple to Yahh. (The thick Darkness drove out the priests so they could not minister)

(Apr 30 at 11:22) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

I noticed that the Ark of the Covenant was eventually taken into Solomon's Temple, but there is a problem. The ark that was taken into the Temple was a fake. If we read carefully we see that the ark taken into the Temple was opened and inside was "only the tablets of Moses". The word ONLY is used. That means that there was nothing else in that ark. But the real Ark has Moses' Staff, two jars of Manna, and the two stone tablets of Moses. Those items must be kept in the Ark forever. So I must conclude that the ark in Solomon's Temple was a fake.

(Apr 30 at 11:27) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

(how can we discuss elsewhere? I start to feel bad for being on islam.com) And don't mistake a contract as a covenant. The (biblical) covenant has no conditions. God chose Abraham, whether he likes that or not. But when they took the land, God said: Keep my commandments and stay or live as you like and go to Babylon and the nations. But even then I'll send fishermen (Herzl) and hunters (Hitler) (Jer. 16:16) to bring you back at last (Ez. 36:24ff.).

And Judah became a separate kingdom. But it included Benjamin. But if it helps we can call Judaism the religion of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

(Apr 30 at 11:36) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

Further, if I may continue :) Brethren: Yes, as I said. Could be. But the other wording excludes the Arabs: from your midst.

And Thomas, if you like texts (like the Quran) that talk about the tribes of Israel, Jesus, Enoch, Adam, Noah and so forth, you can also read Apocrypha. Btw. there are different apocryphal lore in the Quran (cf. Reynolds: The Qur'an in its Historical Context).

And Jesus really taught submission: Turn away from sin, repent! (but as I said, only after being a humble beggar and servant) But I think you analyzed (fragmented) his name falsely.

(Apr 30 at 11:45) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

Then God owns all wealth there is. But neither he nor Satan like wealth. But Satan tries to tell us, that it's very important to be wealthy. Because wealth can save you, he says. Of course that's a mean lie.

Then it was not darkness that filled the temple. It was a cloud. Maybe the one that led the Israelites through the desert? And don't worry about the ark. It was the original, I swear :)

(Apr 30 at 11:48) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

I would suggest you both go to the forum of islam.com and make a thread there.

(Apr 30 at 12:33) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

Yes this is getting too Christian in an Islam site. Not fair to this site to keep this up. You can email me at thomas68isnow@gmail.com

Really enjoy this discussion. I hope we both learn something.

My apologies to the people on this site and may God bless you all.

(Apr 30 at 12:34) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image
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Thank you for that great explanation abdul_wasay . Those are the things I have been saying for years to Christians. The Christians I know think they have to believe what organized religion tells them rather than questioning those things that make no sense. They are told that Islam worships a false god called Allah, not realizing that Allah is the Arabic version of the Hebrew word Eloah. Both meaning God. They refuse to read the Quran where it implicitly states that Allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. There can be no confusion in that statement. I feel due to the language barrier there is a miscommunication of facts between both religions, which in all reality are actually the same religion in two different cultures. Yes there are differences because there will be differences in anything that evolves in differing cultures and differing places on the planet.

Christians will be Christians because that is the Prophet they know. There was several hundred years between Jesus and Muhammad. Muhammad was the Prophet in the Arab countries, so that is who they know. Christians have this idea that they have to give up Jesus to be Islam, but all they have to give up is the belief that Jesus is a god or the God.

I wonder how many times Jesus/Issa is mentioned in the Quran. Even Moses and Abraham are there.

I am still quite confused as to why Christians side with the Jewish faith who denies his existence and slanders his name; but denies the Islamic faith who hold Jesus to a level of Prophet. I could easily see our two faiths becoming one if only the Christian community would follow the rules that is present in all three religions. There is only one God. He is unique. There is nothing like Him.

Also I would like to point out that the Christians use the word Elohim found in the Hebrew to justify the trinity. There are a couple problems with that.

  1. The suffix "im" means 2 or 3. But the word is misspelled by Christians. It's correct spelling is Elohiym. look it up in the Hebrew Lexicon. Even the definition is incorrect to hide the truth. Look up every other word ending in "iym" and you will see the pattern. "iym" means any number more than 3, or many.
  2. The other problem with that word is it never existed in Hebrew until the year 1617 ad. It was apparently invented. Why? I have yet to find the answer.

Sorry for rambling but I have all this knowledge to share and no one will listen. :)

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answered 101 Thomas68's gravatar image

Sorry but Quran speaks better than myself so I quoted them for your benefit. I read your answer they have profound knowledge.

Quran says a lot about their differences:

The jews said that the christians follow nothing (i.e. are not on the right religion); and the christians said that the jews follow nothing (i.e. are not on the right religion); though they both recite the Scripture. Like unto their word, said (the pagans) who know not. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection about that wherein they have been differing. (Chapter #2, Verse 113)

(Apr 28 at 09:38) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. Those who were given the Scripture (jews and christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. and whoever disbelieves in the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, then surely, Allah is Swift in calling to account. [3:19]

They also conceal truth whilst they know it, which is also in the Quran.

(Apr 28 at 09:41) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

Muhammad (saw) is in bible if you like?

(Apr 28 at 09:56) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

Yes, numerous times: The one warning of false prophets in the Torah and the many warnings of false prophets in the New Testament. I admit, though, that not all warnings in the New Testament could be applied to Muhammad.

(Apr 28 at 11:38) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

Some wonderful answers here so I thought I might add one.

I say this answer with utmost respect to my Christian friend

And they will say: 'Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the Fire!'" [Surah Mulk] (doubts not allowed would mean you can't use your intelligence to clear them)

Islam was already in existence when Adam (as) set foot on earth:

(1)"Today I perfected your religion for you and completed my favor to you and have chosen for you Al-Islam as your religion."[5:3]

(2)Sahih Muslim: Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I am most akin to Jesus Christ among the whole of mankind, and all the prophets are of different mothers but belong to one religion and no Prophet was raised between me and Jesus. (Book #030, Hadith #5835)

The word used is perfected not created.

The points of contradiction between the two are as follows wrt Bible (known as Injeel):

  1. Trinity concept that Father (Allah), Holy Ghost (Angel Gibrael) and Son (Jesus (pbuh)) are one. But the verse that was related to this concept has been removed in RSV.
  2. Jesus is god when there is no unequivocal statement that Jesus (pbuh) himself says.
  3. Jesus was crucified (there are debate between Muslim scholar and Missionary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbMzCkHOBhE)
  4. Jesus is son of god (the word begotten was removed in RSV version)
  5. Bible is 100% word of god (and which version is to be considered?)
  6. Jesus (pbuh) will come to save the Christians where in fact he will come to deny the false concepts about him to the Christians themselves.

Muslim means "someone who submits his will to Allah" and thus Quran says:

Or say you that Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob) and Al-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)] were Jews or Christians? Say, "Do you know better or does Allah (knows better ... that they all were muslims)? And who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony [i.e. to believe in Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم when he comes, as is written in their Books. (See Verse 7:157)] he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do." ( Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #140)

There are some to name but I will add if memory serves more.

NB: no Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes Jesus is messenger of Allah.

Muhammadhaddoubts I don't know why you compare prophets when they were all Messengers of Allah (Sahih Bukhari) as you did some place earlier?

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Leave me as I leave you for the people who were before you were ruined because of their questions and their differences over their prophets. So, if I forbid you to do something, then keep away from it. And if I order you to do something, then do of it as much as you can." (Book #92, Hadith #391)

Narrated Abu Said: The Prophet said, "Do not prefer some prophets to others." (Book #83, Hadith #51)


SAHIH BUKHARI

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "My similitude in comparison with the other prophets is that of a man who has built a house completely and excellently except for a place of one brick. When the people enter the house, they admire its beauty and say: 'But for the place of this brick (how splendid the house will be)!" (Book #56, Hadith #734)---thus with that Islam also got perfected!

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Every Prophet was given miracles because of which people believed, but what I have been given, is Divine Inspiration which Allah has revealed to me. So I hope that my followers will outnumber the followers of the other Prophets on the Day of Resurrection." (Book #61, Hadith #504)

Narrated 'Aisha and 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: When the disease of Allah's Apostle got aggravated, he covered his face with a Khamisa, but when he became short of breath, he would remove it from his face and say, "It is like that! May Allah curse the Jews Christians because they took the graves of their prophets as places of worship." By that he warned his follower of imitating them, by doing that which they did. (Book #72, Hadith #706)

One sidenote: the word religion is not precise enough (a particular system of faith and worship-dictionary) but the word Deen is more appropriate: Deen is a submission, following and worship by man for the creator, the ruler, the subjugator in a comprehensive system of life with all its belief, intellectual, moral and practical aspects.

Big Bang theory:“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?” (Quran 21:30)

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answered 8588 abdul_wasay's gravatar image
edited Apr 27 at 21:08

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "My similitude in comparison with the other prophets is that of a man who has built a house completely and excellently except for a place of one brick. When the people enter the house, they admire its beauty and say: 'But for the place of this brick (how splendid the house will be)!" (Book #56, Hadith #734)---thus with that Islam also got perfected!

That saying gave me chills and brought a tear to my eye.. That was so beautiful.

(Apr 27 at 23:12) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Dear Abdul Wasay, this just shows that you only studied Christianity from an Islamic point of view. Especially telling us that the Bible is also called injeel reveals some basic misconceptions. Or maybe you know that Jesus only read the Tanach/Tanakh? He didn't get or write an injeel. Only after his death, the four Gospels that appeared, are usually called injeel (but still there are four).

And the trinity is not biblical. That's why you don't have to believe in the trinity to be a Christian.

And in the Christian Scriptures Jesus clearly states that he is not just a prophet!

Back to Islam:)

(Apr 28 at 11:51) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

You see I am not looking from any perspective at all. I am looking at Final Messenger (pbuh) which I am commanded to follow by Jesus (ra) himself:

Deuteronomy 18:18 “I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”

“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken.” (Deuteronomy 18:15)

(Apr 28 at 20:09) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

You are confusing me Muhammadhaddoubts. I know Jesus (ra) is son of god because he was a pious man and I agree with you. So where am I wrong?

(Apr 28 at 20:21) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

So now that you read that the promised prophet will come from "the midst of thee" and will be from "among their brethren" you know that he will be a Jew, not suddenly an Arab. Well it's possible that God would suddenly choose an Arab. But very rude if he doesn't give a hint that this will happen.

And look, Jesus still changes a lot of biographies these days, mine included. I mean change lives with lasting effect without pressure from outside (changed heart). Now either there are jinn that do all that or Jesus really is part of God's plan to save us and Muhammad therefore a false prophet.

(Apr 29 at 09:12) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra - "Read", he replied, "I am not learned".

(Apr 29 at 10:08) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

I've never seen this verse used to point to Muhammad. Interesting. But you should start to read from verse 9. And then verse 13 is a very well-known verse that Jesus used to describe the problem of his people.

(Apr 29 at 16:22) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

not to start a fight, but mr. doubts, you said..

So now that you read that the promised prophet will come from "the midst of thee" and will be from "among their brethren" you know that he will be a Jew, not suddenly an Arab.

Where brethren = Brothers. and midst is just that, in the same vicinity. What you aren't realizing is that the Arabs are from Ishmael, their brethren that lived in their midst. And in Deuteronomy there was no Jewish religion yet. It was the religion of Israel. Jews were only 1/12 of that religion.

(Apr 29 at 22:20) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Why must everyone fail to realize that the religion of Judah started when the tribe of Judah LEFT Israel to start their own country. Judah was long dead and had no part of that religion. The Bible even separates the two and says that the land of Judah will get a sceptre and the land of Israel will get the blessings. Since Judah left Israel and fought a war against Israel they cannot be the same. Therefore, Judah is not Israel because Israel is made up of all 12 tribes, not just Judah.

(Apr 29 at 22:26) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image
showing 5 of 9 show all

I completely understand your position. I too was there a few years ago. Only with Christianity as my object of anger. It wasn't until I cleared my mind from ALL propaganda from all religions that I have started to understand more clearly. For example, in Christianity, most contradictions in the New Testament can be explained simply by the fact that preachers read something Paul wrote (that contradicts what Jesus said) and then gives Jesus credit for saying it. They deceive us with the idea that the first four books are from Apostles of Jesus, when they are not. Only Matthew and John were Apostles of Jesus. Mark and Luke were not, so therefore by default carry less weight. Paul was not an Apostle either and was not taught by Jesus or the Apostles, so therefore what he says holds much less authority than a Disciple.

The truth that John 1:1 was added to the beginning of John by Pope Innocent the first is withheld. He wrote it as an introduction for trinitarians to make the point that God is a trinity and Jesus was God. John 1:1 is not in the earlier older writing, therefore we know it was placed there more recently.

I can go on and on, but you get the point. Not until I read and studied did I find these things. The passage that means the most to me is from a quote of Jesus.... Question all things, hold fast that which is good.

Most people misquote that passage as , hold fast that which is true... Which is kind of oxymoronic in that how are you to know the truth? But you do know what is good, and if you don't, all you have to do is look at the Ten Commandments.

If you were to get you a Quran and read it you will see that Jesus (whose name in Arabic is Issa and in Greek is Iesu) is one of the key figures in all of Islam. Said to be one of the greatest prophets EVER. Unlike the Jews who claim him to be the udulterous bastard son of Mary who conceived him while menstruating. ( this would be the greatest insult a Jewish person could make), or the Jewish just claim that Jesus never existed. Hmmm. Do you side with a religion that slanders a prophet of God or one that holds that prophet up to the highest levels? If you believe in the mainstream Christianity then you must side with the Jews. I do not.

More over, lets clear some misconceptions about the Jewish. They are not THE TRIBE OF ISRAEL, They are only ONE of the twelve. Do not mistake what I say for hatred of the Jewish. I just want to clarify the terminology for you. The Tribe of Judah and Benjamin left Israel and started their own KINGDOM, after God told Israel that they could not have a king. They are two separate groups. In Jesus' days we know the Jewish and the Benjamites as two groups. The tribe of Benjamin were the Pharasees, and the tribe of Judah were the Sadducees. Jesus called the Pharasees, children of their father Satan. These later became known Jewish mystics/ kabbala/ or Zionists. While the real Jews today still worship God and follow the Torah, The Zionist/Pharasees worship something else.

In the United States, we are told that they are the same. That Zionists are Jews and Jews are Zionists, but I have read and seen interviews with real Jews that would say otherwise. So when you hear someone in the middle east saying they hate Jews in a translation, they are probably using the word Zionist, not Jew. After all, if they are of their father Satan, as a Christian, shouldn't you hate them too? Aren't you as a Christian suppose to hate Satan?

Well I have rambled on too long. Read Read Read. :)

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answered 101 Thomas68's gravatar image

You're obviously from the US. The things you found out about Christianity are public domain knowledge in the German speaking part of the world :) (the German tradition/school of Bible critics)

And of course I'm reading the Quran. Sometimes I even supply others with this book. And if we talk about the book and Jesus: You might know that I have a very different relationship to Scripture than Muslims have toward the Quran: They think it's the ultimate (even though time entered the text through abrogation!!) and I think that Jesus is the Living Word.

(Apr 27 at 17:00) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

And I don't know a lot, but of course I know about the lost tribes. But still God's Covenant is as valid as it used to be. And it was prophesied that the/Jesus' (our interpretation) own people are going to reject what's sent to them. So I'm only a humble wild branch on the tree representing God's people.

(Apr 27 at 17:04) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

Ah you are German, I would love to learn about the Germanic Beliefs and compare them to what I have already read. In my statements I can only say what I have found or believe to be true. It is in no way to say I am right. I always try to make my statements as a question to facilitate a dialogue. I can agree or disagree with you but keep in mind I will not disrespect you.

(Apr 27 at 17:15) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

Well comparing/discussing with pleasure. That's why I'm here (and I'm afraid it's not originally thought for that).

I'm not German. Just German-speaking. And I only studied Islam, though. Christian studies are only a hobby.

You're a professional?

(Apr 27 at 17:20) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

I don't know if I would say professional. :) I have spent approximately 5 years so far in the study and etymology of the Old Testament. (a hobby perhaps) (perhaps some will call me a nut) :) I have a few theories that I am researching an need the view point and knowledge of an Islamic person. I just need to ask questions. :)

(Apr 27 at 17:36) Thomas68 Thomas68's gravatar image

@Thomas thank you for being unbiased and informative. I wish you best of luck on your comparative study

(Apr 27 at 19:44) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

But @Muhammad had doubts what kind of doubts should I have? Please tell me so.

Abrogation is different to contradiction if in that sense you mean.

(Apr 27 at 20:20) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

What's unpleasing about abrogation is, that there are Ayas in the Quran that are abrogated. But they still are in the ultimate text. So the text developed and evolved - in one period is was more like that and later it tended to become like this. Is this acceptable for you?

(Apr 28 at 11:42) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

Like i said abrogation doesnt imply a differrent meaning i will get back to you with examples from a scholar i read.

I too had doubts about it fyi because i didnt understand reasoning behind abrogated verses

(Apr 29 at 17:48) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image
showing 5 of 9 show all

May I take a stab at the beard question?

That question is so easy to answer. The reason Muslim men wear beards is the same reason Jewish men wear beards and is the same reason Christian Amish wear beards. It is an outward sign that you are married or betrothed to be married.

It is simply a way for a person to know whether you can be considered available for marriage. If you have a beard, they wont even ask. If you don't, they may approach you and discuss the possibility of marriage.

Mr. Doubts; I study religions, well I study the big three, and I am confused as to what your real question is. I read your initial question and the answers given spoke of Allah way more than Muhammad. You are condemning them for using the word Muhammad too much rather than using the word Allah; yet at the same time you are propping up Christianity as a holier religion when Cristians very rarely even say the word God, unless they are calling the man Yeshua/Jesus/Joshua god. In every Christian church I have ever been in, The word used in place of God is Jesus.

Not to be nitpicky but you are condemning Islam for what you praise Christianity for doing?

I am a very strange person I guess. I can call myself a Christian because I believe in the teachings of Jesus/Yeshua. I can call myself a follower of Israel/Jewish because I believe in the Ten Commandments and the One True God. I can call myself Islam because I find both Christianity/Jesus and Israel in the Quran.

Islam - 1. A monotheistic religion characterized by the acceptance of the doctrine of submission to God

Israel- 1. In the Bible Israel (ĭzrēəl, ĭzrāəl) [as understood by Hebrews,=he strives with God]

Christianity - 1. of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings

If I submit to the will of God I am Islam; If I follow the teachings of Yeshua/Jesus (only what he taught) I am Christian; If I stand with God when I am striving against something I am Israel.

The key is to stop nitpicking and read. I can only say, that for me, I could not find anything in the Quran that would interfere in my Christianity or being Israel. Unless I have misunderstood what Israel means.

If Israel means to strive against God, Then I must re-examine my position. I have so much information from my studies that it can be overwhelming sometimes.

Keep studying, read the Quran, pray to God for help and you will find what you are looking for. But you have to be honest with yourself when reading.

Have a good day and God Bless you

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answered 101 Thomas68's gravatar image

Sir, I appreciate your comment. Never heard of the marriage reason. Interesting but not persuasive, because it's not the reason today's Muslims grow beards :)

Further: Very well observed: I point to Jesus, while accusing Muslims to point to Muhammad too much.

BUT:

  • Christians base their "Jesus Revolution" on Jesus.

  • Muslims tell me that they have the cleared religion that is only based on submission to Allah. But when looking closer you have to observe so many Muhammad-rules! So many messed up Ahadith.

So the difference: Christians openly declare (admit) that they worship Jesus.

(Apr 27 at 15:44) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

And please note, this was my first question here. And Islam really upsets me. So I was a bit harsh when I started my discussion career here.

And please think well about becoming a Muslim: It's much more difficult to change your mind afterwards.

(Apr 27 at 15:49) Muhammad Had Doubts Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image

"Doubt" is something between Sure(100%) and Impossible(0%). or by another word; "may be yes and may be no"

and being sure of something 100%(without doubt) is called the certainty in faith.. and thanks Allah we are certain about what we believe. for me I started by the doubts; may be there is Creator and may be not? and I reflect and search and found that it is impossible that there be no Creator.. so it became certainty to me that the Creator exist. and then(next step) I search for "where is His message to me?" and found an invitation of His messenger Muhammad who (claim to)deliver the Creator's message to all mankind, and after checking its signs/proofs manifested in the miraculous Quran (words of Allah/Creator)..i believed in him as the real messenger of Allah and followed the religion of Islam(submit and inclined to the truth/Allah), through his message i learned about the Creator and that He is Allah the one and only my lord and the lord of worlds and of everything.

This is the basic thing to do before go into details; like who is killing more or what is the description of Jannah/Paradise/hidden garden.. for your knowledge there is 8 Jannah, one of it its pleasures is nothing but "nearness from Allah" and that is the best Jannah/Paradise.. its pleasure is not compared with the food and/or sex pleasures.. and that is for the people who were pleased/enjoying nearness of Allah by their mind in this world. because they knew being with the giver of gifts/favors/pleaure is much more better and not compared with the gifts/favors/pleasures.

May Allah(The Creator) guide us to the truth and enlighten us its straight path which drives into Him.

Salaam/Peace upon you

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answered 387116 inclined2truth's gravatar image

Hello again!

So your point: Islam is true because it is so simple. Well, Christians have a one-sentence explanation of their faith, too: See John 3:16. Then questions like why this was necessary take two sentences and some things cannot be reasonably explained, you're right. But by saying "allahu akbar" daily, shouldn't you believe that God really is greater than our simple mind and that paradise has more to offer than just food and sex?! Isn't this rather proof that Christianity is right: Their paradise includes the very presence of and the restored relation with God?

And why do you always praise yourself for your Tawhid and don't realize that you talk more about Muhammad than about Allah? Since Allah doesn't have a beard, why should Muslims have one? Look, if you want to worship one God only (as you understand this), try to convert to Judaism. It's a bit more complicated than converting to Islam, but I've heard of people who succeeded.

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answered 106 Muhammad%20Had%20Doubts's gravatar image
edited Dec 25 '13 at 15:40

O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent – then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

The Bedouins say, "We have believed." Say, “You have not [yet] believed; but say [instead], 'We have submitted,' for faith has not yet entered your hearts. And if you obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

The believers are only the ones who have believed in Allah and His Messenger and then doubt not but strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah. It is those who are the truthful.

Say, "Would you acquaint Allah with your religion while Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth, and Allah is Knowing of all things?"

They consider it a favor to you that they have accepted Islam. Say, "Do not consider your Islam a favor to me. Rather, Allah has conferred favor upon you that He has guided you to the faith, if you should be truthful."

Indeed, Allah knows the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. And Allah is Seeing of what you do.

(Translation of the Glorious Quran. Chapter 49. Surah Hujurat http://www.allahsquran.com/read/verses.php?ch=49)

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answered 1856 IbnFaruque's gravatar image

Allah says:

O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.

And know that among you is the Messenger of Allah. If he were to obey you in much of the matter, you would be in difficulty, but Allah has endeared to you the faith and has made it pleasing in your hearts and has made hateful to you disbelief, defiance and disobedience. Those are the [rightly] guided.

[It is] as bounty from Allah and favor. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.

And if two factions among the believers should fight, then make settlement between the two. But if one of them oppresses the other, then fight against the one that oppresses until it returns to the ordinance of Allah. And if it returns, then make settlement between them in justice and act justly. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy.

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answered 1856 IbnFaruque's gravatar image
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