Now updated: Islam.com Ramadan calendar - islam.com/salat

Mickey Mouse,=soldier of Satan Vaccine is haram Polio drops are haram Science is haram

I swear to God, these muftis are ......

asked (suspended) Askislam2014's gravatar image
closed May 19 at 17:48 abdul_wasay ♦ 8588 abdul_wasay's gravatar image

speaking of piss taking, why did muhammad prescribe camel urine as a medicine?

(May 19 at 13:17) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

@mikejm4 oye u dumb! Piss taking mean it's annoying.

(May 19 at 13:20) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image

You know what mikej, every time you answer, you start a new topic!!!!

(May 19 at 13:22) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image

lol. thanks for the translation, i did not know that. you know what they say, america and england are two countries seperated by a common language. funny, if a brit told me he was pissed last night i would think that meant drunk, but if an america said he was pissed last night i would assume he was annoyed. either way, do you know what camel urine is supposed to cure?

(May 19 at 13:27) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

if it can cure cancer why wouldn't you drink it?

btw, this is all one topic. part and parcel.

(May 19 at 13:57) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

Would you drink it???

(May 19 at 14:02) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image
1

sure, why not. i would hope chilling it wouldn't affect it's effectiveness. and if you mixed it with milk it might not be too bad? but if the nano-particles are the only beneficial element in it, i would think they would be seperated and delivered without all the other "stuff" in the urine. i would think camel piss would be high in ammonia. best to get that out.

(May 19 at 14:09) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

umar, i thought that was an excellent link. not sure why ur boys closed it? then again closing doesn't really do anything.

(May 19 at 18:45) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

@ilove I posted three talks which ate based on the teachings of Taymiyyah and Wahhab. Please read carefully and I will be waiting for you to easily refute. The talks are can the sunnah abrogate the quran, difference in islam, tauhid in islam. Take your time, I will be waiting.... salaam

(May 22 at 10:31) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
showing 5 of 10 show all

All I will say is to be careful who you learn the religion from. Not everyone who claims to be a scholar is one. And Islam warns us against ignorant 'scholars' who base their rulings on ignorance. Learn from true scholars.

Anyway - no prominent scholar of Islam has said that science is haram. Or that medical treatment (medicine, vaccine, etc) to ward off disease is haram. These are fine. As for you referring to Mickey Mouse - the words of M.S. Al-Munajjid حفظه الله have been misquoted, and he explained this himself. You can hear his own words here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjD6rUyESuk

link
answered 5936 iLove01's gravatar image
edited May 19 at 22:09

you think al-munajjid is a good scholar?

(May 20 at 16:15) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

He could be better but I think he is decent enough to learn from. He is not a govt. scholar that sells out the religion and he backs his dawah with proof from Qur'an/Sunnah. Of course, he is nothing compared to the great classical scholars of this Ummah. (e.g Ibn Taymiyyah رحمه الله, etc).

(May 20 at 16:59) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

have you read his answer to the question "was islam spread by the sword"? or his fatwas on treatment of non-muslims.

ibn taymiyyah. what was his big debate about with the ash ari scholars? something about the names of allah. not really important though. but what do you think of the book of jihad written by ibn nahaas (i think that is his name)?

(May 20 at 17:17) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

I find it to be in line with the Qur'an/Sunnah and historically correct. Islam spread through jihad and dawah, both. Not the way 'modernists' try to twist it and make it seem jihad had no role in it. And the website says to treat non-Muslims fairly.

Yeah, the debate was over His names/attributes.. and over his books that he wrote. I have actually not read that book by Ibn Nahaas yet. But I plan to.

(May 20 at 17:42) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

the preface is quite telling. page 7 through 10 if i recall correctly. he equates disbelief to a disease and jihad is the cure for society. so like a cancer that must be cut out or a diseased limb that must be amputated, disbelief must be eliminated. yes first by showing the way, but if that doesn't bear fruit, then by the sword. it would be quite humorus if some people didn't actually take it to heart. i see two more bombings in nigeria yesterday killing at least 118.

anyway if lyou google book of jihad there is a pdf you can download from islamic-e-books.com (something like that?)

(May 21 at 12:09) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

right. but what is "fairly" in his book. you did see his fatwa on not greeting christians and jews unless they great you first and if you meet them on the road, "push them to the narrow side." also he states serveral times that non-muslims shouldn't be in a position above a muslim, like a boss. i think he uses the word humiliate several times as well, when dealing "fairly" with the kufaar.

(May 21 at 12:13) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image
1

@ILove01, you say ibn Taymiyyah is a good scholar to learn from? I beg to differ, for in his day and time his teachings were deemed herasy by Ahlul Sunnah, it was Wahhab who reintroduced it to the islamic world, and with the backing of oil money it has flourished into the salafi dawah.salaam

(May 21 at 12:53) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

yaqin, i was hoping you where coming out to tell us some of your grandmother's home remedies. instead a scholarly debate, oh well.

but if she likes al-munijjad, who is a wahhabist/salafi, then it would stand to reason she would like the fountainhead of the movement.

ah yes, petro-islam. the salafi are rising. and i gotta go just when things are getting interesting. so where do you fall on the sex with jinn question? ;)

(May 21 at 13:14) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

Hay mike I see your still making noise:-) I gather the same thing from the statements made. Sex with jinn question hmmm. I will get back at you when I have a moment... be good mike.salaam

(May 21 at 13:24) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Salam @yaqin sometimes your wife is active, and sometimes you are. Are you taking turns?

(May 21 at 18:01) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

Salaam , Yes we are . Just kind of works out that way !

(May 21 at 19:06) sadie ♦ sadie's gravatar image

Works good as well.

(May 21 at 19:12) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

@MikeJm4 - It’s a mistake to associate jihad with random bombings in the media. Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم made it clear that you do not kill innocents (unarmed women and children especially).

And yeah, I read his fatwa. He is actually quoting an authentic hadith. It just means to walk in the middle of the road, let the non-Muslims use the sides. And as for greetings, Muslims would say ‘Peace be upon you’ but it was a practice of some Jews of those times to say things like ‘death be upon you’ .. so the rule is established to let them greet first and then you reply ‘And upon you.’

(May 22 at 03:16) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

And the rest is easily explained as well.

(May 22 at 03:17) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

@Yaqin - I'm aware of that. People falsely accused him (& Ibn Abdul Wahhab) on all sorts of things. There were those who accused him of heresy. (“Scholars” even opposed him and had him imprisoned). But most of those claims are easily refuted. He differs on some things from majority of scholars but this applies to many scholars. Some even had issues with aqeedah, may Allah forgive them. But you look at their contributions overall. Ibn Taymiyyah رحمه الله was active in the field of knowledge and jihad. Alhamdulillah. And his virtue is well known among the scholars, many having praised him.

(May 22 at 03:19) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

@Ilove mike keeps trolling around same topics. He knows the answers.

(May 22 at 09:05) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

@ilove easily refuted, ok, lets see. There are some talks I had on this site about his teachings that i will post for you to easily refute and I have volumes more. Yes I do respect and accept all the things he said that coincide with quran and authenticated sunnah as I do any Muslim, however, I reject all that he has said which goes against the both as I do any Muslim. Taqleed is haram in islam, with that said lets begin.... salaam

(May 22 at 09:43) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

a_w, yes i know what some people say the answer is. does that make it the right answer. aren't muslims a diverse group. is not islam open to a vast array of interpretations? if i can find it i will post the eshayhk's answer to the hermaphrodite question. sneek peek it's a yes. yet you said obviously no? see my confusion and my appearent failure (to understand).

(May 22 at 12:04) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

love, first the bombings aren't random. they have targets, non-muslims, and purpose, to establish an islamic state. did you see the muslims drive cars into and bomb a market in china today. and the response from the uighur world council? the tuager in mali, boko haram. why are shia attacked every ashura? the ahmadi beaten to death in indonesia. you familiar with article XX in pakistan. why did the saudis imprison a blogger for 10 years and sentence him to 1000 lashes for "insulting islam"? why riots over cartoons, movies, koran burnings. go to searchtruth.com 19th book of mulsim. read the

(May 22 at 12:13) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

hadith about killing women and children of the polythiest during night raids. i think the number is 4322.

so why is this not jihad. is not jihad meant to scare people to islam. is that not what al-munajjid says in his fatwa? does not the koran say to fight the non-believers, 8:12 strike at their necks 9:5 lay in ambush for them, kill them where every you find them...?

so you will take the middle of the road. what if i don't give you the middle of the road? then what?

(May 22 at 12:20) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

@Yaqin - Sorry, I do not get into debates such as those anymore. There is very little benefit from discussing aqeedah of one particular scholar. No point in singling him out. You could get into discussions about the views of Ibn al-Qayyim, an-Nawawi, al-Ghazali, Ibn Hazm, etc. and many other classical scholars. List goes on. But it doesn’t matter, because we follow Qur’an/Sunnah and Ijma. These scholars themselves said to reject anything which they say that might go against revelation. No one mentioned taqleed except for you.

(May 23 at 03:56) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

@Mike - “first the bombings aren't random. they have targets, non-muslims” - Muslims do not kill non-Muslims indiscriminately. “purpose, to establish an islamic state” - Allah knows best the intentions of people. Someone saying they do something for X reason doesn’t necessarily mean they are.

(May 23 at 03:57) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

To highlight that, there is a hadith in which it is reported that someone who died a martyr will say (on Judgement day): “I fought for you until I died a martyr. He (Allah) will say: You have lied - you did but fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.” So both actions and true intentions matter.

(May 23 at 03:57) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

Finally, the hadith (4322) from Muslim is a specific case with circumstances, it is not the general rule. The general rule was laid out by the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم - “Allah's Messenger forbade the killing of women and children” (Sahih Bukhari) and other such hadiths (first backed by the Qur’an before all else). So this is what we (are supposed to) follow.

(May 23 at 03:57) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

@Abdul Wasay - Yeah, I figured that, my dear brother. They (opposers of Islam) are very similar. But anyway - he heard it from you guys. Now he gets to hear the truth from me, at least once.. :)

(May 23 at 05:21) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

@ilove its not a debate of aqeedah for the only aqeedah is what the Rasul said anything else is a bidah. You said we follow the ijma, no beloved I follow the quran and authenticated sunnah, as we are commanded where is it leglistrated to follow ijma of anyone? Allah azza waj jall has commanded us to invite to islam with beseerah a clear inviting in sura 12:108, anyone scholar or not that makes claims that isnot of islam must be singled out for his particular statement for we all make mistakes and can be corrected. Taqleed comes in when one just accepts whatever is being promoted from the ijma

(May 23 at 10:05) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Of whoever without investagation. I love all of the scholars you mention also shaykh ul islam for all the right which came from them, for I cannot say that they have not helped. As you know that we only accept islam with textual proof and when what is said we must speak out against it and correct it. IT DOESNT MATTER THE TITLE OF THE ONE THAT SAYS IT..... My aqeedah is not based off of any scholar for he will stand before Allah as I will by myself. For the record I only mentioned the shaykh because you promoted him as a good source to learn the deen and I cannot overlook his shortcomings as

(May 23 at 10:19) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

far as some of his veiws which goes against the quran and sunnah and beloved I'm not talking about his being arrested and tried for anthropormorphism I'm talking his aqeedah. So gor those that may not know it is our duty to inform them about some of these things. My beloved muslims investagate what one tells you, study the deen, and beg for the mercy of Allah..... salaam

(May 23 at 10:26) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

"muslims do not kill non-muslims indiscriminately" you need to read the news. another bombing at a shia festival in iraq yesterday. 3 actually. another village attacked by boko haram, 25 killed.

allah may be the only one to be able to read minds, so i take people at their word. JI in indonesia, the muslims in the southern philipines, the south of thailand, northern nigeria, mali, chechynia, china, islam4uk-holland-belgium and the list goes on.

did you see they released the letter the younger boston bomber wrote in his own blood while hiding in the boat? interesting stuff. "specific case"

(May 23 at 10:35) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

Distracted Muslims are the real terrorist !! @ilove what do u mean by not killing non muslim indiscriminately ?? I think u r a taliban representative. @mike them lot won't understand. They will always defend terrorist one way or the another .

(May 23 at 11:45) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image

i don't know if they are defending terrorist. i think they just refuse to see the connection between islam and the terrorist.

(May 23 at 15:07) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

@Yaqin - You do not seem to have deep understanding of Islam, my dear brother. “aqeedah is what the Rasul said anything else is a bidah” - And what if the Prophet ﷺ did not mention something? Then what? The point is - sometimes there are different ‘acceptable’ views. And people differ. Some people have aqeedah which barely puts them into the folds of Islam. Some have beautiful aqeedah.

(May 23 at 15:50) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

“You said we follow the ijma, no beloved I follow the quran and authenticated sunnah” - Hm. And who authenticates those hadiths which you follow? Scholars. The Qur’an and Sunnah were not directly handed to you (Yaqin). They came to us through scholars. So whether you like it or not, you do follow Ijma and engage in taqleed.

(May 23 at 15:51) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

Furthermore, the Prophet ﷺ said that this Ummah does not agree upon error, in one authentic hadith. So what we agree upon (based on proof) is truth, and Muslims can not differ from that consensus.

Anyway - every scholar has shortcomings. This is part of being human. The only person whose statements are completely believed are the Prophet’s, and everyone after him - their statements may be accepted or rejected. This does not mean that you can not rely/learn from them.

(May 23 at 15:51) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

@AskIslam & @Mike - When I said, “muslims do not kill non-muslims indiscriminately” I meant, this is what we are supposed to do. Not kill them indiscriminately. This is the principle to follow.

“i take people at their word” - Then you are probably a gullible person. I bet you believe every word of the govt. as well. Their lies about why they attack/invade innocent countries, etc.

(May 23 at 15:54) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

lol. sorry an incomplete thought. see i never claimed perfection. i take people at their word until they give me reason not to. what government do you speak of? either way i can't think of a government that hasn't lied, so no i don't believe every thing any government tells me. nor am i gullible enough to believe in beings of smokeless fire having sex with humans. or the "evil eye", lol. and you call me gullible. anyway, what exactly is the motivation of a suicide bomber in our opinion?

as for directly handed to yaqin, are you saying the koran and sunnah have been changed?

(May 24 at 11:11) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Taymiyyah

looks like this guy wasn't directly handed anything either. lol. i see why you are a good muslim, your logic is so flawed.

goodluck in you debate with yaqin. i got a tip for ya. ask him about his arabic. i don't think he is a native speaker.

(May 24 at 11:18) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

Hay mike I can answer that question no I'm not a native speaker but I had the best teachers so my arabic is fine. Hay you got any tips for me.mike:-)

(May 24 at 12:50) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

@Mike

• Yeah, neither Ibn Taymiyyah nor Yaqin were given the Qur’an directly. I am not sure what your point was (you are probably confused on it, yourself). Ibn Taymiyyah is not the one who sees the chain as insignificant though, whereas Yaqin does.

• There is no implication in that statement that the Qur’an/Sunnah have been changed. It is part of the preservation of the Qur’an actually, that generation after generation people memorized the Qur’an and passed it onto others.

(May 24 at 23:52) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

• It's physically possible to have ‘sex’ with non-human species so not sure why you think the same can’t be true of jinn. But anyway, scholars differ on that, whether it happens or not. Either way, believing in the word God makes you wise. Believing in ‘people’ blindly makes you gullible.

• Idk what their motivation is. It may be political (many Christians have bombed people over politics) or it may be religious.. but their view of jihad is not correct. This is the bottom line.

As much as I would love to teach you the truth, try to stay on one topic instead of jumping around on several.

(May 24 at 23:53) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

'sail, blame it on my ADD baby.' so you are in yes camp on sex with jinn. thank you for a straight forward answer, or wait. scholars "differ". so you left yourself an out. it's like y'all are politicials. WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE? as for your comparison of other non-human species, dogs and goat, sheep, chickens, pigs, horses, cows, etc. those all are mamals and exist with flesh and bone. not beings of smokeless fire. "the word of God makes you wise", so what is the word of god? can jinn have sex with humans according to your god?

(May 27 at 11:40) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

did you read ibn nuhaas's book of jihad? how about the founder of the muslim brotherhood's book?

(May 27 at 11:41) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image
showing 5 of 42 show all

I don't even believe this. Is this how scholars are supposed to be?

Imran ibn Muslim reported: Umar ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “Acquire knowledge and teach people. Learn along with it dignity and tranquility and humility for those who teach you and humility for those whom you teach. Do not be tyrannical scholars and thus base your knowledge upon your ignorance.”

Source: Shu’b Al-Iman 1650

link
answered 8588 abdul_wasay's gravatar image

It meant Islamic knowledge

(May 22 at 09:01) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image

@ILove, your statement about my understanding of islam is funny, al hamdulilah, your question after that is frightening, that being, " what if the Rasul saws didnt say something then what?" First know that IF is of the shaytan, second, the Rasul saws didn't leave anything out of the ebadah and the aqeedah of islam and he has made this clear in his last sermon and Allah azza waj jall has confirmed this fact in sura 5:3, inwhich Allah has stated that the deen had been perfected. I believe you are blinded by your madhab following, ma'shallah. Also beloved scholars may authenticate the hadiths for you but not I beloved. With that said lets proceed, first and foremost we must have a clear understanding of the facts which is stated in a athar of Ibn al Jawzi who stated-"A BIDAH IS ANY FORM OF WORSHIP THAT DID NOT EXIST AT THE TIME OF THE RASUL SAWS, THEN LATER IT WAS INNOVATED." Also, Ash Shaatibi stated in an athar-" A BIDAH IS ANY MATTER WHICH CLOSELY RESEMBLES THE SHAREE'AH AND IS INTENDED TO BE AWAY OF WORSHIPPING ALLAH." Also Imam Malik stated in an athar-" A BIDAH IS ANYTHING PRACTICED IN THE DEEN TODAY WHICH WASNT IN THE TIME OF THE RASUL SAWS TIME." Also Imam shaffi stated in an athar-" A BIDAH IS ANYTHING THAT HAS NO BASIS IN THE QURAN, SUNNAH OR SAYINGS OF ANY OF THE SAHABAH." Last but not least, ibn Rajab stated," A BIDAH IS ANY FORM OF WORSHIP WHICH HAS NO BASIS IN THE SHAREEAH WHICH WOULD WARRANT ITS LEGISLATION." Now with that foundation layed lets proceed inshallah,the hadith reported by Abu Ad-Dardaa which states the Rasul saws said," I SWEAR BY ALLAH THAT I HAVE LEFT YOU WITH IT ( the deen), SO CLEAR THAT IT IS AS CLEAR AS NIGHT, AS IT IS IN THE DAY AND ONLY A DOOMED PERSON WILL STRAY AWAY FROM IT." (Sahih Muslim-bukhari-ibn maja) So beloved as you can see when it comes to the deen the Rasul left nothing to chance or interpertation, the deen is clear. Now lets talk about the hadiths, I ask you was the system of Ilm Rijal implemented by the Rasul saws or any of his companions? The answer to this question is infactly NO. For those who may not know what ilm rijal is it is the grading of hadiths. The system of ilm rijal was implemented into the deen in the second century a couple hundred years after the Rasul saws and his sahabah was long gone. Now return back to the definition of what a bidah is given by some of the kalaf and tell me if the system of ilm rijal fits into any of the definitions?

The million dollar question is if they didnt do it then how did the people of their time who may not have seen the Rasul saws grade hadiths. It has been reported by Ibn Mas' ud the Rasul said,"when a hadith is reported to you from me, put it before the book of Allah. If it agrees accept it, otherwise reject it.(Muwatta imam malik)

Also reported by Abu Huriah the Rasul said, " There are many who misqoute me, and one who misrepresents me has his abode in hell. When a saying of mine comes to you on my behalf weigh it against the quran."(sahih muslim-bukhari)

Neither of these hadiths mentions anything about ilm rijal, nor does either mention anything about isnad,( a list of authorities who have transmitted a hadith of a statement, action or approbation of the Rasul saws. The isnad precedes the actual text (MATN) and takes the form," It has been related to me by A on the authority of B on the authority of C on the authirity of D that the Rasul saws said).

Also note that neither says anything about, muttawitr sahih hasan da'ef ahad, what was said by the Rasul saws is clear and simple, accept it when what is attributed to him coincides with the quran otherwise reject it. Though this is not done by the majority of the muslim community, this does not negate the fact that this is how the Rasul saws commanded it be done. So your snide comment about the ijma doesnot apply to me. I'm not a scholar worshiper. I stand on what the Rasul saws said to do to authenticate the sunnah. You may engage into taqleed, I seek refuge with Allah from that, but not I inshallah. I do agree that people make mistakes and I donot hold it against them I just note that it is a mistake then I move forward. Now if you like we can go into aqeedah in depth, for Allah has blessed me with a clear understanding. I'm no scholar but I'm not a fool.... salaam

link
answered 833936 yaqin's gravatar image
edited May 23 at 22:54

Sorry, but you are wrong again. Your main argument is that the ‘process of classification’ was not present during the time of the Prophet. Two points:

• The companions heard the words of the prophet straight from his mouth (so they knew it was authentic) or from their own trustworthy companions (hence they again knew it was authentic), so in a way - they were subtly ‘classifying’. (If a known liar came to them and said the prophet ﷺ said this, do you think they would believe it? - They did not even accept the testimony of someone who shaved his beard, let alone accept something like that).

(May 24 at 03:07) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

• The increasing chains of narrators did not pose a problem until later.. when generation after generation, a new narrator was added to the list. So the classification system is necessary. (And - to be considered bid’ah .. some conditions apply - e.g there was no need for it, there was no preventing factor during the time of the Prophet ﷺ, etc). And this does not apply to them. So not innovation.

(May 24 at 03:08) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

Furthermore, you said the correct way to interpret is based on checking with Qur’an. This is just one criteria that the scholars use, but they go more into depth than this (checking the characters of the narrators, etc). So just from this, their classification is more reliable than yours.

(May 24 at 03:09) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

But yours also does not take into consideration many things. e.g Some hadiths may agree with the Qur’an but are fabricated (words that the Prophet ﷺ never said). Some hadiths speak on topics not discussed in the Qur’an. Does the Qur’an detail how to pray? No. Let us say two hadiths tell us how to pray, (one fabricated, the other authentic). How do you know which one is true when it is not mentioned in the Qur’an (and that is your only criteria)? So this is sufficient to show that you are not on a strong basis, but weak.

(May 24 at 03:09) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

Even still, you quote from ‘Sahih’ books (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, etc). If there is a book of fabricated hadiths, will you turn to it and try to check with the Qur’an to see if you will accept it? Probably not. And if not, then you see that you still depend on the scholars of hadith.

(May 24 at 03:09) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

You said: “I'm not a scholar worshiper” - Following the scholars does not make you their worshipper.. just as following the sunnah of the Prophet closely does not make you his worshipper. Obeying the Prophet, turning to scholars is actually worship of Allah سبحانه و تعالى, who commanded that. He said to ask the people of knowledge.

If they go against the word of Allah سبحانه و تعالى and/or make halal what is haram (and vice versa) - and you obey/follow them in that, this is when you commit shirk/go astray. But not simply in learning/listening to them.. when they answer based on proof.

(May 24 at 03:10) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

Lastly - my question does not fall under that category of “if” questions being from Satan.. because this is not hypothetical. Qur’an is complete in what Allah سبحانه و تعالى wanted to tell us. But there are things which the Qur’an/Sunnah actually do not directly discuss. Hence, ijtihad is involved in arriving to their answers, deriving principles and indirectly deducing rulings on those things/acts.

(May 24 at 03:10) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image
1

Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “Whoever does not argue when he is in the wrong will have a home built for him on the edge of Paradise. Whoever avoids it when he in the right will have a home built for him in the middle of Paradise. And whoever improves his own character, a home will be built for him in the highest part of Paradise.” [Tirmidhi]

Don't argue and be split over these kind of matters.

(May 24 at 04:03) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image
1

Our prophet Muhammad said : " The followers of Mossa (pbuh) split into 71 sects ,one went to heaven , the followers of Eisa (pbuh) split into 72 sects, one went to heaven and this comunity will split into seventy three : seventy two of them will go to hell and one of them will go to paradise , it will be Al-Jamaat".

---Similar text

Our prophet Muhammad said: "My millat (ummah) will be divided into 73 parts, all will go to hell except one", the companions (r.a.t.h) of Prophet (pbuh) was asked: "who that will be", Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "the one on which I and my companions are"

(May 24 at 04:07) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image
1

Its better to stop trying to correct each other. One has some points and the other has some points. Don't make non-muslims laugh on your petty differences.

(May 24 at 04:11) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

Thanks for the reminders @Abdul. But it is not a minor issue :(. I am the first to stop arguing over petty issues (which is why I refused to debate him on Ibn Taymiyyah's aqeedah). But this is serious, involving his belief.. and I speak against errors when I see them. Anyway - whose view do you agree with? Serious question.

(May 24 at 04:25) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

As long as the scholar is based on Quran and Hadith. Yes he tells us but it our duty to check up ourselves to confirm. Never be shy to ask for proof and that is good. An example is Dr Zakir who always gives references

At individual level primary sources are enough guidance but if secondary is to used then it should always be confirmed with first two

(May 24 at 10:23) abdul_wasay ♦ abdul_wasay's gravatar image

abdul, aren't you supposed to be studying?

love, doesn't the koran say, 5:3 'and today We have perfected your religion'? muhammad asad's translation actually say 'perfected your religious law'. so how can something be perfect yet incomplete?

(May 24 at 11:04) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

@ILove beloved again you say I'm wrong but what you base your foundation on is moot. I gather that you are saying the system had to be Iimplemented by the scholars this mindset is dangerous for the Rasul saws has told us how to grade hadith. You speak about ijtihad, well beloved all ijtihad has to be from the quran and sunnah. Remember the woman who came to one of the sahabah about him cursing woman for certain things and the sahabah said to her, why shouldn't I curse those whom Allah apostle has cursed. The woman made the same claim you have, she said, I have read the quran from front to back

(May 24 at 11:16) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

and I don't see anything about what you are cursing us for. The sahabah said to her, yes it is there. Have you not read whatever the Rasul saws gives accept and what he tells you to refrain from reject. My point is that whatever the case is the quran has dealt with it directly or indirectly and ijtihad must derive from those sources, and you know as I do there are thousands of fatawas that are not based on the quran and sunnah but are implemented into the deen. However, what we are dicussing is a system that has been implemented and the Rasul saws has given us the way to do what the scholars

(May 24 at 11:26) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

have done. You ask me if I would check hadiths against the quran than you answer for me, so allow me to answer for myself.yes I do and I always will weigh it against the quran, you make my point for me you keep saying follow the scholars, we are commanded to follow the Rasul saws only, now we can take from those of knowledge as long as what is being taught coincides with what has been legislated. So I agree with you about we can listen and learn, but I know many muslim which take these shaykhs words as if they are the Rasul saws and the revelation has come to them. You ask the brother who 's

(May 24 at 11:39) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

veiw does he agree with, to me it doesn't matter for I'm going to stand on what I have learned from intense study and Allah will be the judge on who is right or wrong. I have presented my arguement with textual proof you give me excuses of why something was done. You can't correct me with conjecture, sorry beloved and I don't follow the crowd either. But for the sake of brotherhood I will leave you to your ilm rijal and I will stand upon what the Rasul has said..... I pray I have not offended you for that is not my intention if I have then please forgive me...salaam

(May 24 at 11:48) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

@abdul wasay may Allah azza waj jall reward you for your advice. Remindbfor reminding profits the believers. Jazakallah

(May 24 at 11:53) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

@ILove I see your question pertained to fabricated hadiths, well look at it from this point of veiw. The shia claim that all of the sahih sitta are fabricated and the sunni claim all of al kafi hadiths are fabricated so how would we judge to who is right or wrong????? Some scholars say the muwatta of imam Malik is fabricated and I can go on and on. My point is how do we the laymen deduce who is right? Do we rely on the scholars of each? I say no, weigh it against the book.... salaam

(May 24 at 12:03) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

How can the scholars system be more clearer than mine when its not mine, so are you saying that theirs is clearer than the Rasul saws. What are you saying beloved. So if a scholar checks a hadith against the quran and it coincides than using the system he finds a liar in the chain how should he grade the hadith? How can you say that sxholars go more in depth than what the Rasul saws has left clear? They go so deep they implement a system that the Rasul didn't and you defend it. What you are suggesting is the Rasul needed to be corrected by them wow, I seek refuge with Allah

(May 24 at 12:14) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

@Yaqin - Authenticating reports is mentioned in the Qur’an, by Allah سبحانه و تعالى who said: يا أيها الذين آمنوا إن جاءكم فاسق بنبإ فتبينوا أن تصيبوا قوما بجهالة فتصبحوا على ما فعلتم نادمين (“if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate”) Quran 49:7. He specifically said fasiqun (فاسق) i.e evil-doer because this is a big factor in whether you accept a statement from a person or not.

(May 24 at 23:50) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

This is proof that you have to look at the character of the person. If they are known to be liars, (or known to have weak memory, etc) then you can not accept fabrications from them (this is an Islamic principle), even if what they say agrees with the Qur’an. So the system of hadith classification is in line with the Qur’an. Alhamdulillah.

(May 24 at 23:50) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

So it is you who is not following the Qur’an properly. This is what happens when you use your own whims to come up with your own ways to do things based on one hadith you cherry-picked. You are led astray. Accepting hadiths which are fabricated or falsely attributed to the Prophet is considered lying against him. He also said that whoever invents a lie against him may take a seat in Helll. So my dear brother, if you fear Allah سبحانه و تعالى, then you will stop and repent.

(May 24 at 23:50) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

Shia books include liars in their chain of narrators. On some of them, they do not even know the chain of narrators! SubhanAllah. See how falsehood is very easy to discern from truth (and the main body of Muslims is upon truth - we do not agree upon error).

(May 24 at 23:51) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

“fatawas that are not based on the quran and sunnah but are implemented into the deen” - This is blatantly not true. There are some corrupt people who issue fatwas based on whims or personal interests, but their corruption does not get implemented into the deen (which is protected and preserved). Believers (Mu’mineen) who are the ones through whom Allah سبحانه و تعالى preserves the religion and makes it spread, are the first people to oppose their corruption and reject it.

(May 24 at 23:51) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

@Mike - It's not. Qur'an is complete in what it needs to cover - i.e the important and basic stuff. The Sunnah clarifies on that. And as mankind progresses and we find ourselves in new situations not discussed by Qur'an/Sunnah - then we derive rulings from principles in Qur'an/Sunnah.

(May 24 at 23:57) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image
1

@iLove you are graspjng for straws al hamdulilah, the ayah you speak on is49: 6, and it is not referring to the saying of the Rasul saws,and when you read the ayah in its entirety it is clear . Remember about the usool of the Quran beloved, ayah came down dealing with certain situation I suggest you tasfir this ayah before you boast of triumph. Now I agree we should never take from a known liar. You fail to negate the understanding of constitues a bidah. For the sunnah explains the quran the hadiths that you claim I cherried pick is clear beloved. You insult me when you suggest that I follow

(May 25 at 00:36) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

my own qiyas and hawa. This is far from the facts and Allah knows, ma'shallah, now you say if a liar tells you something from the quran and you investagate it you don't accept it? The more I read your words the more you confuse me. Well the shaytan told Abu Huriah the truth in a hadith and the Rasul didnt tell him not to accept it. He just informed abu that yhe shaytan is a liar but what he told him at that moment was the truth, forbwhat the shaytan told him was in the Quran. Also there are many fatawas that are implemented into the aqeedah by imams scholars etc such as wahhab and

(May 25 at 00:46) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

It's not any different. The principle is the same. If news or a report/hadith comes to you, you have to check whether the person giving it is honest or a liar, among other criteria. This is demonstrated in the Qur'an clearly, so you are deliberately ignoring it to suit your own incorrect point of view. You are wrong and at odds with the Muslim Ummah. And I already showed how it is not bid'ah earlier. So you are wrong on both accounts.

(May 25 at 00:46) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

"there are many fatawas that are implemented into the aqeedah by imams scholars etc" - Okay, go ahead and show some proof of this then.

(May 25 at 00:52) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image
1

taymiyya and some of there students I can go into it if you like for I know you are upon the salafi dawah. It is you who is not following the quran properly and your comment to me about the shia is moot I only mentioned them to make a point. I know it is thousands of fabricated hadiths some scholars claim it over three hundred thousand. Now you claim the believers are the first to reject.if this is sobthen why have you not tejected the salafi dawah? Ahlul sunnah wa jamat have openly with proof of their misguidance. And your lack of knowledge shows for the shia donot abscribe to ilm rijal so

(May 25 at 00:58) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

No, I am not associated with Salafis. I disagree with the way they behave and condemn their pro-govt. views among other things. So do not assume or claim about me what you do not know. And you mention Ahlus Sunnah wal Jammah yet you reject "ilm rijal" which the Ummah is agreed upon. This is not what Ahlus Sunnah does.

(May 25 at 01:03) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image
1

your statement about liars in their chain is pointless. Now are you saying that the two hadiths I used are fabricated? I know you are not saying that Are you saying I made them up? Stop making empty satements beloved. So which is it, I cherried picked or I made them up or they are fabricated? Everything you have wrote thus far is from your own qiyas. Your proofs are weak and your arguement is weaker Beloved I am very comfortable in my islam, I suggest that you take you own advice. If ilm rijal suits you al hamdulilah, I'm not one to abscribe to it, and that doesnot take me outside the folds

(May 25 at 01:13) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

of islam. Now you on the other hand ponder that you absribe to a system that was not implemented by Allah or the Rasul saws. May Allah guide you... salaam

(May 25 at 01:17) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

Sigh .. I am saying that you cherry picked one or two hadiths, and based the entire ruling on that, without looking at all the proof overall (which proves you wrong).. based on your own understanding and not that of the Muslim Ummah. (Qur'anists do the same thing as you). You did not refute me on anything. Just saying that my arguments are "weak" does not mean that they are. It means you can't accept the truth when faced with it.

Anyway - the truth has been pointed out to you. I will leave the rest upon Allah سبحانه و تعالى. Salam.

(May 25 at 01:18) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image

"not implemented by Allah or the Rasul" - these statements show you have no idea what you are talking about. Qur'an came to us through a chain by the way - it is mutawatir. Rejecting mutawatir hadiths is kufr. Just for your knowledge. Salam.

(May 25 at 01:21) iLove01 iLove01's gravatar image
1

@ilove where is the other proof which you claim that proves me wrong? You haven't shown anything that proves the fact that this system was not implemented by the Rasul saws. And you are correct I didn't refute you the textual proof did, and you can't get around the fact that it was not done by the Rasul saws and this is a bidah by definition, its simple beloved. Sorry beloved the quranidt don't accept any hadith I'm not of that mindset, I accept all what the quran confirms. Al hamdulilah that you are not salafi you talk like one though, be that as it may. What scholar if yours said that

(May 25 at 01:55) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

if you don't accept a mutawitr hadith it is kufr,for the Rasul never said this for this concept came after him, for your knowledge. Beloved it is you who can't accept the facts for truth is what one accepts facts cant be refuted. You stand on your truth and I will remain on the fact. You told mike that I said the chain is not important this shows that you donot comprehend well, all I'm telling you that it is a system which was not taught by the Rasul saws like breaking tauhid up into three catetgories ahlul sunnah says this is a bidah for the same reason why I say ilm rijal is that being it

(May 25 at 02:08) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
1

was not taught by the Rasul saws. You say the quran came to us through a chain. Where are you getting this stuff from. What chain? You are making empty statements again. Well you say I don't know what I'm talking about well show me where the Rasul saws or Allah implemented ilm rijal. The ayah you used has the principle I agree to that now if ilm rujal was the explination of it then the Rasul would have implemented it nobody else. I'm not at odds with the ummah there are many muslim that has this veiw. Take the blinders off beloved.inshallah tomorrow I will show you the proof for my statement.

(May 25 at 02:24) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image

About the fatwas, inshallah I will leave you with the words of the Rasul saws who said," The best speech is the speech of Allah and the best guidance is that of Muhammad saws. The worst matters in the deen of islam is newly invented matters kull all newly invented matters is a misguidance and kull all misguidance will reside in the fire." The Rasul said all not some. And what is newly invented beloved the definition from those of the kalaf has explained what it is clearly. Salaam

(May 25 at 02:39) yaqin ♦ yaqin's gravatar image
showing 5 of 40 show all
Your answer
toggle preview

Markdown Basics

  • *italic* or __italic__
  • **bold** or __bold__
  • link:[text](http://url.com/ "title")
  • image?![alt text](/path/img.jpg "title")
  • numbered list: 1. Foo 2. Bar
  • to add a line break simply add two spaces to where you would like the new line to be.
  • basic HTML tags are also supported

Tags:

×1

Asked: May 19 at 12:39

Seen: 790 times

Last updated: May 27 at 11:41



©1998-2013 Islam.com Publications and Research.       All Rights Reserved.