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Quran for all times?

asked 09 mikejm4's gravatar image
closed Jun 30 at 19:41 123 AbduAllah (suspended) 123%20AbduAllah's gravatar image

It appears you read ISNA's condemnation of some thing related to apostasy, right?

(May 28 at 05:01) UmarAbdullah ♦ UmarAbdullah's gravatar image

the Islamic Society of North America? no i haven't. should i?

(May 28 at 11:12) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

umar, i just read last night that CAIR has re-released their 2009 statement saying that people should have freedom of religion and freedom of consciousness. that the government should not be involved in personal beliefs. that they consulted with the fiqh council of north america.

www.cair.com/press-center/press-releases/12494-cair-reiterates-rejection-of-apostasy-laws-after-sudan-ruling.html

so do you think the 01 that loves 01 is buying this westernized fiqh. are you buying this? or are you for killing her if she was in fact rasied a muslim?

(May 29 at 10:51) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

You are a muslim????

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answered 965 abowaleed's gravatar image

no. i am not.

(May 28 at 11:24) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

Quran is perfect and çmoplet we know that from reading quran..it's tell us every thing from create the sky to qyama day... And no book like it from the bigining to the end

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answered 965 abowaleed's gravatar image

so the koran says it is perfect, therefore the koran is perfect. that is like using a word to define itself.

it tells you everything? so are having dogs in your house prohibited in the koran? minus two qirats (however you spell that)? not to shape your eyebrows?

(May 28 at 11:28) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

Thank you for your good question, brother.

Allah says (more or less in English):

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. [Chapter 3, verse 7]

Hope you have a sudden form of enlightenment as you read the translation of the verse.

Secondly, As for Justice/injustice you must admit brother your view will be much based on society, and time period. What is just in one society may not be so in another. In one western country, there was a keep the country white policy which would be unthinkable for the government to apply today. What was considered right had totally revolved within a short span of 100 years. Im sure when you were young, if women wore the type of clothing Western women wear today, they would have considered immoral and immodest! This is similar to apostasy.

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answered 40117 UmarAbdullah's gravatar image

frist let me take your second. how old do you think i am? i came up in the 70s. the decade of the mini-skirt. and i'm sure the older generations found it immodest and immoral. but i don't recall anyone being killed for wearing one. and certainly not a government sanctioned killing. anyway, yes the ideals of justice have evolved. and the means of punishment too. well, for some of us. i see the maldives are now implementing sharia, even the hadd punisments. brunei has adopted the hadd. but no one in the modern world should think stoning someone to death is justice. or killing them for leaving a

(May 28 at 11:44) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

religion. don't you think umar? or are you in favor of killing a man who was a muslim who says i'm not anymore? you ever what 'young turks'. i imagine that guy cenk (something) was once a muslim. now he is an atheist. should he be killed. never had fareed zakaria say he wasn't a muslim, biut once i heard him say sharia is no way togovern a society, it doesn't allow lending money at interest. i know his father was a muslim scholar? i see another salman rushdie question. not only do some consider him a blasphemer but he was raised a muslim and then said he was an atheist? well that was some rambling. good thing i went to the answer box accidently.

as for "And no one knows it's [true] interpretation except Allah." that's hilarious. so why are people trying to use it to make law.

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answered 09 mikejm4's gravatar image

It is misunderstood when people do not understand it in the context of the sunnah. God did not just send Qur'an alone to us. He sent along with it the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to explain more in detail and clarify for us. And he clarified it when he said that apostates are to be executed - showing us that the 'no compulsion in religion' does not apply to leaving Islam, only entering it. There is nothing contradictory about it. But the problem is - you choose misguidance. When you do that, your heart is made narrow, thus you perceive less and don't have understanding. Simple.

Anyway - regarding the story of the Sudanese woman.. why is she being charged @ 27yrs for 'being Christian' when she is said to be "raised Christian"? Etc. Makes no sense. One official said she was in fact raised on an Islamic upbringing and it is her brother who turned her in when it was found out that she embraced Christianity. So quite a different story than is commonly spouted. And this is the reason I am very skeptical of such 'news stories' in the media. [I am not commenting on the rest of your propaganda]

If Shari'a was implemented perfectly, lands would be rid of most evil and corruption.

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answered 6036 iLove01's gravatar image

'news stories'? you don't believe usa today, bbc, washgtion times? the western media. go to al jazeera. "propaganda", are you calling me a liar. now you say "one official said she was in fact raised n an islamic upbringing and it is her brother who turned her in..." so what is it? is this actually happening or not.

so what if it was her brother who turned her in after she was raised in islam. so the perfect implementation of sharia will to be to hang her once she is gone breastfeeding?

you Love01 what? certainly you have no love for this woman.

(May 29 at 10:17) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image
-1

You know what, u r taking references out of context. In reference to your compulsion and killing for apostasy, yes Islam says there is no compulsion for anyone to accept Islam but for those who are muslim has to follow. Daily life example; if u are not enrolled in army then you don't need to follow army rules and regulations and there Is no compulsion in it. But if u are, then u have to follow accordingly, and any violation will result in punishment.

Answer to your second bit, If u want to follow Islam then read Quran and understand it rather then watching youtube videos against Islam and taking reference out of context. I always follow what Quran says rather than what Muslims do.

I know this answer would help other people but not you as I well aware of you. Peace

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answered (suspended) Askislam2014's gravatar image

Mikej.....

(May 28 at 07:08) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image

how am i taking references out of context. your explaination is the same that i gave. i like your anology. so you are saying that if you join islam, it is for life. you can't change your mind 20 years latter, you will be killed?

so how about the woman in the sudan. her father was a muslim, does that automatically enroll her in the army? if a woman converts to marry a muslim and the muslim dies and she returns to her jewish family and then converts back to marry a jew she should be put to death? do you tell this to all the converts before the say the words?

(May 28 at 11:36) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

. We Muslims have a objective code of conduct.

Ok what would you do as a general of your army, if your officer betrays you.

Ok forget everything and tell what is the punishment for treason in any country?

I am not saying whether it's right it wrong but the punishment of apostasy only comes in action when an ex muslim start propaganda against Islam.

(May 28 at 23:09) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image

Ref to Sudan case according to British law when you withdraw your nationality, you can't get it again in your whole life. Well she first converted from Jewish to muslim then back to Jewish. It sounds me like a fun game. You can't make mockery of some religion like this.

Tell me can u withdraw your American nationality to gain British nationality and the n withdraw you British nationality to gain American nationality. You know what it's not a gta sa where u can change your skins and play different roles

(May 28 at 23:09) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image

dude, your anologies are running wild. but let me see if i can take them one at a time. first you generally (no pun intended) don't join the army for life. by yes once you sign up you have to do your alotted time. if you go Absent WithOut Leave (AWOL) you have broken the law and are a criminal. but they don't shoot you for that. but in battle a superior officer can shot a subordinate for refusing a lawful order. so joining islam is like joining the army. lol. you should tell people that, i bet everyone will convert. yes, i've heard the treason arguement many times. so are you differenciating

(May 29 at 11:00) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

between major and minor apostasy? only when they "attack islam" would you put them to death? now you say if they start "propaganda against islam". what does that mean? you would kill ayaan hirshi ali? you would kill rushdie? i thought you were the most reasonable one here (other than paul), but you are as blood thirsty as the rest of them.

the jew to muslim back to jew is in a hadith, not the sudan case. as for renoucing your citizenship, i've never heard of anyone being killed for that. you do know there is dual citizenship.

(May 29 at 11:10) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

something just hit me with your army anology. john kerry was in the army and fought in vietnam. he won some medals, don't remember which? anyway, we were still involed in the war when he wore his army uniform in a protest outside the whitehouse. he threw his medals over the whitehouse fence. he testified before congress about the atrocities the army committed in vietnam. some people called him a traitor. no one killed him. anyway, he is now secretary of state.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucY7JOfg6G4

dude, you should watch more youtube, ;) so people should die for mocking religion?

(May 29 at 11:18) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

I am not saying whether it's right or wrong to kill anyone. I am just giving u Islamic explanation.

(May 29 at 19:06) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image

so you follow a religious law that may be wrong? i know the "islamic" explanation. i gave it in my question. there are hadiths in the 84th book of bukhari that says to kill apostates. the question is why do muslims still follow these, i'll say it, WRONG laws.

(May 30 at 12:08) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image

Well mike It could be wrong for you but not for others. U can't implement ur views on someone else

(May 30 at 14:22) Askislam2014 Askislam2014's gravatar image

interesting. did not the pre-islamic arabs commit female infantcide. did not muhammad tell them to stop burying their daughters alive? so did not muhammad implement his views on someone else.

so the aztecs practice of human sacrifice should not be called out as inhumane.

(May 30 at 15:16) mikejm4 mikejm4's gravatar image
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Asked: May 27 at 12:11

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Last updated: Jul 28 at 14:53



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