Thank you for your thorough answer! Believe it or not, I do still have a few questions, although, you did address the ones I already have asked.
As I said, if either Adam or Eve were actually created in heaven, this seems to be much more in agreement on the verses quoting Allah, in saying that he would Adam on the Earth (however, I do not personally believe this, but I'm sure you already guessed that anyways). As far as Christianity goes, as I am a Christian, one of Jehovah's Witnesses, it is a bit frustrating when I hear that other faiths believe certain things are taught from the Bible that actually aren't. while it is true that many who profess to be Christian or of that background will say that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad had a particular type of fruit that we are familiar with today, the actual Bible doesn't make this claim. Instead, it also only refers to it as fruit. I am sure you shake your head at some of the teachings or beliefs that those who claim they are Muslim but do not truly understand the Qur'an and therefore encourage the misunderstsanding of the Qur'an among those not well acquainted with it.
"BUT THE TREE ACTUALLY HAD KNOWLEDE OF WHAT WAS RIGHT AND WRONG AND SINCE GOD KNEW THAT THEY WERE DESTINED TO EAT FROM THE TREE HE PUT SOMTHING WONDERFULL IN IT, KNOWLEDGE."
Now this right here I have an issue with, because it almost sounds like there was a reward for disobeying, which is exactly what the Bible says Satan told Eve about the Tree. Even though he was partially right (she would know the difference between good and bad, and the Bible says he also told her she would not die when God expressly said otherwise), he implied that God was holding back something good from them, which if the Qur'an is to be belived, sounds like Allah is saying as well. If he knew that they would eat from it, why would he reward them with knowledge, wouldn't this make it seem as if Allah tells you not to do things because he is trying to hide them from you, but if you find them, because it is a trick, you will obtain what he had intended for you all along. That doesn't sound like a good incentive to follow, Allah, rather, it makes it sound like a dare, as in, Allah says not to do it, but he may have something good waiting for you if you do. Wouldn't a better way to teach this lesson be to not have a good outcome for the disobedient ones? And if he gave them knowledge because in their disobedience they would be sent to Earth and need it, isn't he helping them lessen the effects of his own punishment? If the real purpose of being sent down to earth was not only to develop it but also to feel hardship, then why would he want to soften that blow and risk them not getting the need to worship him as urgently? This is like if I punished my child, told them to go their room, no toys, no t.v., because they opened a box I told them not to open. Perhaps it was meant for them one day, but they had opened it before I meant for them to have it. Inside that box is a toy that I know they would really enjoy. So, now that they've got the toy, and enjoyed it, instead of sending them to their room without it, which would make sense, I send them to their room, but let them keep it, because even though I won't let them have anything else, if they have that toy, it'll take the sting off my punishment and make it easier to bear. Do you think my child is going to learn from thislesson that they need to obey me because they miss being with me in the living room, or do you think their going to think, well it was worth it, because I still got the toy, and besides, I know how to get mom to love me again, and she will forgive me (you say Adam knew how to gain God's approval already, unless you mean he learned this afterwards). It's not important to wait in my child's mind, because even though I wanted them to open their present later, I just let them keep it when they did open it. In other words, I don't even care about my own rule to enforce it properly. Does it even make it seem as if that rule was important to begin with? Anyways, why would Allah, or even God for that matter, who wanted humans to worship him, wish for them to take the authority of deciding good and bad upon themselves. We can't say that it was simply knowing right and wrong that they were taking for themselves, because they already knew right and wrong. They knew it was right to listen to their Creator, and wrong to disobey him. If they didn't, they wouldn't need punishment, they would need correction, but no, Allah did not keep them around to teach them this principle because they had already known it. In fact, he punished them, because it was a concsious decision they made, not just a simple mistake or understanding. It makes more sense, that the tree meant not just knowing what good and bad was, the taking the authority to dictate or decide what good and bad was, and they wanted this for themselves, even though God in the Bible says that the tree, or we could even say authority, was his.
"SO ADAM WAS SENT ON EARTH SIMPLY TO LIVE IT WAS A PUNISHMENT BUT EVEN MORE IT WAS A LESSON AND HE BELONGED TO EARTH ANYWAY HE WAS ONLY IN HEAVEN IN THE FIRST PLACE TO 1-HE WAS CREATED THERE 2- SO WE MAY HAVE A NATURAL YEARNING TO BE IN HEAVEN AND FEEL LIKE ITS OUR HOME."
This also bothers me, because if Adam belonged on the Earth (you say to, but I assume you mean on, if not, let me know; I'm not trying to harp on grammar either, but in matters of ancient texts that we do not currently speak anymore compared to our modern languages and words and meanings, it actually becomes an issue), then why would Allah make him yearn to be somewhere he didn't belong? This sounds frustrating at best. And if he belonged on Earth, why wouldn't he stay there? Or why wasn't he at least made there? And how does Islam explain the formation of a physical body that Adam presumably used in the heavens (you say the Qur'an says he was made of earth and the breath of life blown into him) and then lived there for some time in? What did he eat? How did he survive in the atmosphere, even if it was within the earth's atmosphere where there would be oxygen, the lack of it in so high an altitude that would constitute the difference between being in the heavens and being within Earth range? Either he was not in heaven in the body that is recorded Allah made for him before everything else happened, or he was in a different kind of human like body that could survive in those circumstances (which would make him not really human, or spirirt, but some other kind of being), or he was at an altitude where he wasn't physically touching the ground but he was able to breathe air that is oxygen saturated enough for human life, and have access to food from the earth. Unless he ate something else, or Allah sustained him, which, if he was going to do that, would be much easier to do with him in spirit form, since everyone else was a spirit, and Adam and Eve would have been the only beings visible to the human eye. On top of the fact that you say one day we will be able to see Allah, so is that a third existence, the first being a human in heaven unable to see Allah, because he is human, than a human living on Earth, then the third being spirits in heaven? The last two I can believe, and do believe for some, but the first just seems too impractical, far-fetched, etc.
"SO ADAM CONTINED LIVING WITH HIS WIFE AND THEY BOTH ASKED FOR FORGIVNESS AND IT WAS ACCEPTED BECAUSE THE ACT HE COMMITED WAS ONE THAT ALLAH KNEW WAS COMMING AND COULDENT BE PREVENTED AND WAS ALSO A LEARNING EXPIRENCE FOR HIM."
While I see the benefit of learning from one's mistakes, it just doesn't seem like a good way to go about learning. If Allah is as concerned with obedience as the Qur'an says he is, why wouldn't he just want them to be obedient in the first place and learn to be obedient to him by practicing it, instead of learning the hard way. Afterall, these were perfect individuals, with perfect minds capable of learning probably far more complex ideas than we are currently able to. I'm not sure I have ever met a human who was a parent who would set up a test that they knew their child could not pass so they could learn not to do that. An example would be the present again. Suppose I don't have that present in any old cardboard box, but it is wrapped in my child's favorite pattern and colors, it is all shiny, and perhaps it is not even a box, perhaps it is just wrapping paper covering the item where he can make out the shape, like a bicycle. Now, he's never had a bicycle before, and I've told him he isn't allowed to have it yet, because he isn't ready for it. I tell him this bicycle is mine, but it looks like it is for him, and is so alluring. In fact, I purposely make it look like this, so I can see if he is worthy of having it someday. But I know that there is no way he can resist it, and I don't want him to, because if he takes it, I can then show him what happens when he disobeys me. I ground him and send him to his room and also make him feel terrible for what he is done, but I also let him take the bike with him to his room, so he isn't too sad. Now I've punished him for something I told him he couldn't have, although at the very least, I knew this would happen, and then I let him keep the forbidden object, leaving him to wonder, is it really all that bad to have this after all? Or am I being lured into wanting things that I'm not supposed to have? This is mixed messages to put it lightly.
"PARADICE IS NOT EQUAL TO EARTH NOR WILL IT EVER BE"
I agree with you on that, I asked the question related to this because it is impossible to answer that question yes. And if you cannot answer the question with a yes, than you also cannot say that Earth and Paradise Heaven are equally good places for the same kind of test to take place.
"WE DO BELONG IN HEAVEN BUT FIRT WE WERE CREATED TO WORSHIP SO ADAM AND ALL OF HIM OFFSPRINGS WERE SENT TO WORSHIP ALLAH, AWAY FROM HIM TO TEST OUR FAITH AND LOYALTY AND BELIVE IN THE UNSEEN THIS IS THE F]GREATEST ACT OF LOYALTY BELIVING IN SOMTHING THAT YOU CONNOT EVEN SEE FOR YOURSELF THIS IS WHY WE WERE SENT HERE. THIS IS THE REASON FOR EARTH AS ANOTHER TEST WE CANNOTSEE ALLAH BUT WE WORSHIP HIM ON THIS PLANET IF WE WERE IN PARADISE WE WILL SEE AND HEAR AND IT WILL BE EASIER TO BELIVE BUT TO TEST OUR LIMIT OF BELIF WE ARE HERE."
Now this puzzles me. I don't understand why I would need to hone a skill I don't intend to use in the future. Of what good is believing in something I cannot see if its only to prove that I belong where I can see him? Why would Allah ask his worshippers to something that is more than neccessary? If we are working towards being in a paradise where we can see him, why would we need to practice having faith in an unseeable God, unless, we would actually need that in the future, like if we remained in earth where we would never be able to see him. Thereby making that kind of skill very useful to have.
I sympathize and empathize with the situation of Muslims who abide by the laws of Islam and therefore become physically conspicuous towards outsiders and face stigma. However, as a stigmatized people, you must also understand or at least strive to understand what other religious groups like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who by their actions in faith are also conspicuous and stigmatized (I am actually a Jehovah's Witness myself) go through. For all of us, our religion is a choice, so it's not like we can say, well we cannot help it. Yes, if we wanted to, we could blend in and not follow what we feel is the right way of worshipping God, but in the same vein, it is sad that there is so much prejudice towards faith in general. Because I am receiving information from you, a Muslim, about your faith, I hope you will extend to me the patience of acknowledging me when I say that we do not shove anything down people's throats. I cannot speak for other groups for evangelize, but Jehovah's Witnesses simply do what they do because that is what Christ did, and is a part of our religion to follow his example. We do not believe he is divine or partners with God. While he enjoys an elevated position in our eyes, we view him as subject to God, as he even said he was. He expressly said he was not God when opposing religious leaders of the day tried to say that he was calling himself such as a form of blasphemy. But he denied it to the death (which we feel he did experience). That is what the Bible really says. It may seem as if we are forcing others to listen to use because even if someone says they are not interested, we may come back at another time. This is not because we want to pester them, and if they tell us to never come back, we make a note of that so we can comply with their request. But if someone says they are not interested because that day we are there to share with them a specific scripture or talk about a specific subject, often it is not clear whether it is the religion, the subject, or the Bible they are not interested in. So we check in with people from time to time because we may later be discussing a topic that does interest them. In addition, as I'm sure you have experienced with Muslim converts, peoples lives change constantly, and the answers to life that they have today may not satisfy their needs tomorrow. We want to make ourselves always ready and available for people to have open scriptural discussions. Thats whay we do it. Jesus also went from one person's house to another, instead of waiting at the synogogues to preach, and that is also why we are so proactive in our approach. Whether you believe Jesus wass a man worth following is your own opinion, but it cannot be refuted that we are engaging in the work he also did.
"AND HUMANS DO NOT GO WILLINGLY DOWN TO EARTH BECAUSE ONCE YOU ARE IN HEAVEN OR HELL OR IN THE GRAVE YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO RETURN TO EARTH FOR ANY REASON, ONLY JESUS WILL BE ALLOWED BECAUSE HE DIDNT DIE WHEN HE WAS SENT TO EARTH WHEN YOU DIE YOU CANNOT RETURN BUT HE DID NOT DIE AND ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT THE EARTH AND EVERYTHING LEFT IN IT WILL BE DESTROYED THEN THROWN IN HELL FIRST BECAUSE THERE IS NO USE FOR IT SECOND BECAUSE PEOPLE WORSHIP THE EARTH MOON STARS DIRT TREES AND ANIMALS AND ANYTHING ELSE CLAIMED TO BE GOD AND WORSHIPED WILL BE THROWN IN HELL."
If humans cannot leave heaven for any reason, then why can they still be sent unwillingly? Do they not have a pre-human existence in heaven according to the Qur'an? If they do not, because Adam was sent down to heaven first as a punishment, wouldn't this be the sin of the father affecting the sons, which the Qur'an says Allah does not allow? If they do have a pre-human existence, then there must be some allowance for them to leave heaven, willingly or unwillingly. As for Jesus never dying, what does the Qur'an have to say concerning this? I am not familiar with this teaching. If, as you say, the earth will be destroyed (presumably because it is only a testing ground), will creation of people in heaven cease, or have they all been created in heaven beforehand and so will it be more like there are no more individuals to be sent down for testing? If there will be more people created (if it is an ongoing event), how will they be tested if there is no earth? Or will they need to be tested? What is the principle of justice behind that?
"A SIN SOMONE DOES IS NOT ALREADY GURENTEEING SOMONE INTO HELL BECAUSE ONE MAY ALWAYS REPENT SO A DEED DONE OF EVIL LETS SAY STEALING DOSENT JUST = HELL WE HAVE OUR WHOLE LIVES TO FIX WHAT WE HAVE DONE WRNG,REPENT AND DO GOOD IN REPLACEMENT BUT ONE MUST START RIGHT AWAT BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS WHEN THEY WILL DIE.SO ADAM DID NOT RECIVE A PUNISHMENT BECAUSE HIS SIN WAS A LEARNING EXPIRENCE. ADAM DID SIN BUT IT WAS A WAY FOR HIM TO LEARN, ONE MIGHT SAY IT WAS ALSO A WAY TO GET THEM ONTO EARTH. THIS WASENT ONLY A MAY TO SHOW THAT ALLAH IS MERCIFALL BUT THAT WAS PART OF IT, BUT YES IT IS A HUMAN INSTINCT THAT AFTE A SIN, REPENTENCE IS NEEDED AND GOD HAS A LOT OF MERCY SO IT MAY BE FORGIVEN BASED ON YOUR REPENTANCE."
This is probably the only question I didn't feel you answered head-on. I'm not asking about whether or not once if a person sins they are always doomed, so perhaps I was unclear on this question. I have read that in Islam, every prophet is seen as infallible. If this is true, I would like to know how Adam was considered a prophet because he did sin. My question was whether or not Allah made him perfect again afterward as part of his forgiveness, as this would be the only way to be considered a prophet by Islam's standards. In this vein, since all humans are presumably born pure according to the Qur'an, if they sin, do they lose or retain their prefection in Allah's eyes? I'm not saying that all humans are prophets who Allah views as deserving of going (back) to heaven, but in order to be received, Allah would have to forgive them of their sins. If they were not made perfect again before death, like Adam, then is their's a different kind of forgiveness granted? Is their repentance of less value in Allah's eyes if they are not made perfect again like Adam? Or does sinning not affect one's perfection? If this is true, then it wouldn't matter what you did, because Allah wouldn't send a perfect person to hell. Or does it take a certain severity of sin to mar that perfection? This s perhaps the hardest concept for me to understand, because if Adam was pure when made, and I am pure when made, and then Adam sinned, and I sin, and then Adam repented, and I repent, and Allah forgave him, and Allah forgives me, and Adam was considered perfect and went to heaven, then aren't I considered perfect and will go to heaven (This is on my belief that Islam states that a prophet is someone whom God has spoken to and also happens to be infallible, not infallible because God has spoken to him, or a prophet because he is infallible, or infallible because God has spoken to him and is therefore infallible. Correect me if I am wrong)? The only difference I see is Adam was considered a prohpet but I am not. "Do prophets receive a better, more powerful, forgiveness than non-prophets?" is basically what I am asking.
"IF YOU HAVENT DONE ANYTHING WRON THEN YOU DONT NEED FORGIVNESS."
Exactly, so the question is, did Adam sin or no? If not, because he was infallible, then he didn't receive forgiveness either because he didn't need it. If he did sin, was he still, or really, a prophet?
"IF YOU WONDER WHAT HAPPENED IN THE END FOR ADAM AND EVE, WHEN PROPHET MUHAMMAD SAAWS CAME, HE ONCE NARATED THAT THE ANGEL GABRIEL CAME TO HIM WHIL HE WAS ASLEEP, AND TOOK HIM TO JERUSALEM TO PRAY THEN TO HEAVEN BECAUSE ALLAH REQUESTED HIM(ISRA WAL MI3RAJ) SO THE PROPHET DID SO AND HE SAID HE SAW ALL THE PROPHET AND SPECIFALLY NAMED ADAM AS ONE OF THEM GABRIEL SAID THIS IS YOUR FATHER GREET HIM AND MUHHAMAD SAID: ASSALAMU-ALAIKUM AND ADAM REPLIED: WA-ALLAIKUM-ASSALAM"
Does this mean that Adam died, or no? If he didn't die, then Satan would actually be telling the truth (although he is called a liar) that he wouldn't die. If he did die, was he resurrected to a spirit life? Or was he transformed to a spirit creature or angel, therefore not really dying, and in that case, Satan would still have to be not lying. And that is something no one who believes the Bible or Qur'an can accept because if Satan isn't a liar, and he told the truth, then he didn't sin, he just exposed the truth about God, who could presmubaly said to be a liar according to our holy books. In which case, why would a liar deserve worship? I know you don't believe that as much as I dont.
I hope you don't take offense to what I have written here. I mean no disrespect to who you believe to be the Creator and the religion you believe is true. I have tried to present some alternatives to many of the views you expressed even if I don't believe they are true to really emphasize the things I do not understand with the full weight of what the answers might imply. In all honestly, I really want to understand how Muslims think, believe, and feel, because that is the only way to feel love for someone whose beliefs contradict your own, be it large or small. If we don't try to understand and relate to each other, than we can never escape the prejudice and dehumanisation of misunderstood peoples and cultures which often leads to hate and bloodshed. I thank you in advance for your careful reply, and appreciate your willingness to calmly discuss these topics with me!